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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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 Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 3:56 am Post subject: How's the current job market? |
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| How are you finding the job market in Korea now? I'm guessing better than 2011 - 2012ish but still pretty bad? I realize there is no pre 2009 rebound. Just curious how many of you looking into hakwons and the like are finding things. |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| Very tough on all levels. From hagwon to unis the requirements are getting higher, but the wages are stagnant. |
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FastForward
Joined: 04 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 5:57 am Post subject: |
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| There is like 3-4 of these in the jobs related forum. Less jobs and more applicants than before. Hours are getting longer for the same pay. You can still find a job. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 7:10 am Post subject: Re: How's the current job market? |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| I'm guessing better than 2011 - 2012ish |
For ease of getting (and keeping) public school jobs (AND university jobs AND hogwan jobs AND privates)? Absolutely not. Much much much much worse. 2011-2012 was amazing compared to now. (So many high paying side jobs like voice recording work for big bucks. Really scarce these days.) The Korean job market's been in slow gradual deterioration since at least 2005. For example, ten years ago in public schools camps were paid (about a million a week). Now they are unpaid. And that's been the case for a while. (Even long before 2009. So your theory about the U.S. economy being the sole determiner of the ESL job market in Korea (and worldwide) is incorrect. It's only going to continue to worsen. Maybe the decline will be slow. But it's not going to improve. Not ever. It hasn't and it won't. Same goes for Japan, etc. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: How's the current job market? |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| I'm guessing better than 2011 - 2012ish |
For ease of getting (and keeping) public school jobs (AND university jobs AND hogwan jobs AND privates)? Absolutely not. Much much much much worse. 2011-2012 was amazing compared to now. (So many high paying side jobs like voice recording work for big bucks. Really scarce these days.) The Korean job market's been in slow gradual deterioration since at least 2005. For example, ten years ago in public schools camps were paid (about a million a week). Now they are unpaid. And that's been the case for a while. (Even long before 2009. So your theory about the U.S. economy being the sole determiner of the ESL job market in Korea (and worldwide) is incorrect. It's only going to continue to worsen. Maybe the decline will be slow. But it's not going to improve. Not ever. It hasn't and it won't. Same goes for Japan, etc. |
Why are the wages which were 2.1 ish in 2011 now being advetised in some cases with up to 2.3 or 2.5? Of course not every job, but there seem to be more higher ones than back then? Also, it does seem a lot more foreigners that were staying in my area for years have gone home over the past year or so. So, that's what confuses me. One recruiter told me it was worse, but worse than what in comparison to when? So, some indicators say worse and others seem to point up. I think 2010 to 2012 were much worse than before 2009. EPIK 2008 my town was suppose to get 4 new teachers, only one showed up. They couldn't anyone. One year later they were suppose to hire six and they actually showed up and on time - March 1st. Why would it change so much in just a year if the recession weren't in play? I agree other factos might be playing into it more recently. For a couple of years after the recession, all you saw were 22 year olds and lots of young teachers. Most older teachers were gone compared to before. Nowadays, I am seeing some older teachers creeping back in over the past year or so. So, again, this is what confuses me. (Koreans must be hiring older because they can't get the 22 year old babies.)
As for camps, I never got paid extra for them in the last decade, but I did get lots of free time and go home earlies and holidays through the year I don't get now. But, rarely got a lot of extra money. (Though I liked the slackness at the time.) |
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SeoulNate
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Location: Hyehwa
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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Probably the biggest reason for the decline is just the number of school aged students is still declining on average.
With fewer students comes fewer classes comes fewer hakwons comes fewer teachers right on down the line. |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| SeoulNate wrote: |
Probably the biggest reason for the decline is just the number of school aged students is still declining on average.
With fewer students comes fewer classes comes fewer hakwons comes fewer teachers right on down the line. |
Yes. This year not one middle school in the town I work in got a full crop of first year students. Instead of the typical 8 classes of 30-something students, most have 6 and a few 7.
This plus a shit economy = ESL slowly going down the crapper. Not that it couldn't pick back up. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Why would it ever pick back up? NETs in public schools were an experiment. Korean teachers disliked their presence (as they were a reminder to do what they were paid to do, that is speak English) and were able to successfully phase them out. Those days are never coming back. Things are deteriorating everywhere in the ESL world. Check the Middle East (a sucky place to live no doubt) forums if you don't believe me. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: How's the current job market? |
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The going rate for hagwons in 2011-2012: 2.1 million a month. The going rate for hagwons in 2015: 2.1 million. That is the same. Except it's less when taking into account inflation. Much less. There are more applicants than job openings. This means employers would only pay higher than 2.1 if they are being really picky (want a young, pretty North American female) or have exceptionally long working hours. Some of the higher paying ads are fake. "Oh you want that 2.4 a month job? It's gone, but I have a 2.1 one at Wonderland for you. Better act fast before it disappears too." OR "Sorry. That job is only for females. But give me your resume (for me to post online without your consent) and I can try to get you a job." Hagwon working hours have gone up. But the pay hasn't.
Can you tell me specifically how EPIK, GEPIK, or SMOE have been improving?
EPIK : took away five days of renewal bonus vacation.
GEPIK: lowered pay for qualified teachers (education major, TESOL, experience, etc.) from 2.2-2.7 to 2.0-2.5.
SMOE: took away one week of vacation and eliminated the 2 million won re-signing bonus
All became way more competitive to get into.
Obviously the market in 2011-2012 was worse than pre 2009, but now is even worse.
University jobs = WAY harder to get into even as pay goes down.
The market's over saturated - that's why.
Ten years ago barely anyone outside of Canada had heard of teaching English in Korea.
In the United States, most losers back home / down on their luck / adventurous degree holders still don't know about it but that number continues to grow.
Most people stay in Korea for only one year but the number of MATESOLs is increasing and has been for a while.
If you had been in Korea in 2005-2006, you would have found it was better even than 2007-2008.
From 1987 to 1997 there were ridiculous opportunities to make massive amounts of money. Carpetbaggers were saving $50,000 a year. Was it possible to do that in "pre-2009" when you were there? Hell no.
Maybe Koreans are figuring out youth and beauty should not be the most highly sought after qualities in a teacher. Or maybe improvements in the U.S. economy mean they can't get what they really want. Or both.
I'm correct when I say public school camps were paid less than a decade ago. You barely missed that time. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:31 pm Post subject: Re: How's the current job market? |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| How are you finding the job market in Korea now? I'm guessing better than 2011 - 2012ish but still pretty bad? I realize there is no pre 2009 rebound. Just curious how many of you looking into hakwons and the like are finding things. |
Some people are trying to leave Korea, including veterans. I have a good job, but my salary has gone down at my uni. Due to a decrease in enrollment, they reduced our pay. Things are not looking up, generally.
However, there are definitely jobs out there i.e. hagwons and some universities are hiring, but it's not close to as good as it once was, IMHO. And add on top of that the health cost of having more pollution. No thanks. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:43 pm Post subject: Re: How's the current job market? |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| Also, it does seem a lot more foreigners that were staying in my area for years have gone home over the past year or so. So, that's what confuses me. One recruiter told me it was worse, but worse than what in comparison to when? So, some indicators say worse and others seem to point up. |
Are those people leaving voluntarily or being forced out (due to public school cuts and declining hagwon enrollment). I would guess the latter, but maybe some are going back due to recovering economies?
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000
Unemployment rate:
United Kingdom: 5.3%
United States: 5.4%
New Zealand: 5.8%
Australia: 6.2%
Canada: 6.8%
Ireland: 9.8%
South Africa: 26.4% |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:14 am Post subject: |
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A huge amount of my friends are going home. Two lads went back to England with their Korean wives, one lad is heading back to the US after summer, and one lad is heading back to Canada with his Kwife.
The people sticking around are looking for ways into other fields of employment. |
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No_hite_pls
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:20 am Post subject: |
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| SeoulNate wrote: |
Probably the biggest reason for the decline is just the number of school aged students is still declining on average.
With fewer students comes fewer classes comes fewer hakwons comes fewer teachers right on down the line. |
+1 |
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lithium
Joined: 18 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:10 am Post subject: Re: How's the current job market? |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| Also, it does seem a lot more foreigners that were staying in my area for years have gone home over the past year or so. So, that's what confuses me. One recruiter told me it was worse, but worse than what in comparison to when? So, some indicators say worse and others seem to point up. |
Are those people leaving voluntarily or being forced out (due to public school cuts and declining hagwon enrollment). I would guess the latter, but maybe some are going back due to recovering economies?
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000
Unemployment rate:
United Kingdom: 5.3%
United States: 5.4%New Zealand: 5.8%
Australia: 6.2%
Canada: 6.8%
Ireland: 9.8%
South Africa: 26.4% |
This number is misleading since 90,000,000+ people are no longer working and 42,000,000 are receiving food stamps. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:27 am Post subject: |
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The number not working has to do with the aging (retiring) population, no?
The number on food stamps (one tenth of the population- ghetto folks) is high because Obama made it easier to get the free money no strings attached. Too many people- a minority, but a sizable one- are reproducing when they shouldn't be then taking the government handouts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nN1HqAps4Y |
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