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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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 Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:01 am Post subject: |
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| Pianote wrote: |
| I have been at this job for over 6 months. This is my 2nd year in Korea. And I am getting paid 2.3 not entry level but I am not getting rich either. |
2.3 for how many classes? If these are 45 or 50 minute classes, I'd say it's time to leave that job or demand 2.8 to 3.0 if there are 50 or more classes of this timelength. If they're short classes, then ok, I guess. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:02 am Post subject: |
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| Pianote wrote: |
Sorry candybar! I have been under a lot of stress lately.
I am supposed to interview students at the academy to show off how great their English is. Management keeps changing the topic countless times. My students have been memorizing the script, then they tell me we can't use it.
Today it really escalated. Korean teachers gave me a task to do, so I did it during lunchtime (since I had no more breaks). At the very end of the day, they tore apart my work, saying I did it all wrong.
My Korean co-teacher's English is bad and I realized she is not able to tell me what she wants me to do.
The Korean staff at the hagwon is starting to do "wangtta (왕따)". Basically, all of them turning away from me and refusing to look at me, or even acknowledge me.
I think they are trying to make me quit. If I get fired from a hagwon, does it automatically cancel the E2 visa? Do I still need to get a letter of release from them?
How would you put that on your resume? I have worked there long enough that I want to show I was employed, but don't want them to damage my professional reputation. I have put a huge effort into this job, just to hang on to this point. |
Well, you know, you reply and point - Gongju! If they get weird looks and turn away from you, you ask in question form michin? |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:10 am Post subject: |
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| DaeguNL wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| 2.3 = $2,070. BA holders in the States average $4,771. So yeah, what I said is factually correct. Hell, money's not everything, but it's just sad you work at a job you hate for so little money. |
might wanna factor in housing allowance ($360), Severance ($170) and Flight ($150) into the monthly calculations as well.
the person making 4771 is probably clearing about 1600 biweekly. not as far off as you made it seem. |
Flight doesn't count as they got to pay that to get us here. It's not money we get. We'd not have this extra money back home. It's not extra money in our pocket and they'd have to get us here somehow. But, severance, sure. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| bossface wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| 2.3 = $2,070. BA holders in the States average $4,771. So yeah, what I said is factually correct. Hell, money's not everything, but it's just sad you work at a job you hate for so little money. |
Let's compare apples to apples here. OP is living in Korea and spending money in Korea, so unless he is sending a bunch of money home, 2.3 = $2300. He isn't paying into pension, so after taxes and health insurance (assuming he has it) his take home should be somewhere around $2150. If he gets severance (should according to the law) then we should divide that extra 2.3 by 12, so that's an extra $192 a month for a grand total of $2342 a month. Based on standard tax rates, our theoretical $4,771 earner in the US would pay $847 a month in federal tax. Social Security is another 6.2%, so that's another $295 a month. Medicare is 1.45%, so another $69 (dude). At most, somebody earning $4,771 takes home $3,560. After state taxes (in some states) and health insurance (varies by state, occupation) we're probably down to an even $3000. Factor in rent or mortgage, and it's more likely $2,000. Plus, higher utility bills and higher insurance costs, and the absolute necessity of owning a car in America (other than in the largest and most expensive cities). You'd basically have to make over 65 grand a year in the states to have the same purchasing power/quality of life as OP. |
All this is true, but as many times as this point is brought up, posters still keep banging the same drum that teaching in Korea is somehow a horrible financial decision. Living in New York City currently, it would cost me around $2,000/month to have a studio as nice and as spacious as my Korean officetel, and it would likely be in a less happening area, on a lower floor, and lack in-unit laundry. |
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Pianote
Joined: 29 Apr 2015
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:53 am Post subject: |
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Classes are 30 minutes each. What makes it hard is 7-8 classes in a row every day with no break. I have to come up with my own materials for a lot of kindy classes. Which is difficult because my break times are being so strictly regulated with micromanaging tasks. They don't even have flashcards at the hagwon. There are no in-house supplementary materials, really. In addition, I have a lot of rules I have to follow for the worksheets. Basically I can only have them write a letter and do some coloring.
Meanwhile in the Korean teacher's class, one day they were coloring on a balloon. Also I have been banned from making photocopies if a kid forgets their book. |
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motiontodismiss
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
Social security is forced savings that is matched by one's employer. Lifers in Korea not paying into that are not smart but rather are screwing themselves longterm. |
The US social security is that since hell would freeze over before the US defaults on its social security payments.
I don't know if I trust the Korean government to hold up its end of the bargain. They're constantly trying to cut payments.  |
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Fallacy
Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Location: ex-ROK
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:23 pm Post subject: RE: Burnout starting to hate job |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Social security is forced savings that is matched by one's employer. Lifers in Korea not paying into that are not smart but rather are screwing themselves longterm. |
Sustained. While I agree with World Traveler's statement that "social security is forced savings," I object to WT's assessment of lifers as "not smart" or "screwing themselves," but if they elect to avoid paying into some kind of mandatory pension system, I cannot offer any rational defense.
Last edited by Fallacy on Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:49 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:00 am Post subject: |
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| Fallacy wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
Social security is forced savings that is matched by one's employer. Lifers in Korea not paying into that are not smart but rather are screwing themselves longterm. |
The US social security is that since hell would freeze over before the US defaults on its social security payments. |
While I agree with World Traveler's statement that "social security is forced savings," I disagree with WT's assessment of lifers as "not smart" or "srewing themselves" if they elect to avoid paying into that system. There are alternative savings and investment programs for securing the longterm, and "lifers" might be availing themselves of just such opportunities.. |
I would have to agree with WT here (shocking but true). Pension here is matched by your employer. You pay 4.5% and so does he. At the end of the year (or whenever you leave) you get it ALL...yours and his. Essentially you've doubled your pension money in a year. What other saving and investment programs offer a guaranteed doubling of funds in one year?
Sure you shouldn't put all your eggs in one basket...but if you are from a country that has a reciprocal agreement with Korea then you are throwing away money...literally... if you opt out of the pension. |
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Fallacy
Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Location: ex-ROK
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:02 am Post subject: RE: Burnout starting to hate job |
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The OP writes the word "pension" and refers to it not being paid; then 7 posts later, bossface writes both "pension" and "social security" in a response to the post by World Traveler just before; finally 3 posts later, WT writes "social security" in a follow-up. Are these terms to be taken as equals in meaning? I did not address them as such in my post, so to clarify: if one is a citizen of any country other than the ROK, and while working in the ROK, one is not paying into any "social security" program mandated by any country other than the ROK, that is okay, for there are alternatives, such as the nationally mandated or privately elective "pension" programs on offer in the ROK. However, avoiding payments into, for example, the NTS, while working legally in the ROK is "not smart," and lifers who do so "are screwing themselves longterm," so I agree with World Traveler's statement to that effect.
Last edited by Fallacy on Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Pianote
Joined: 29 Apr 2015
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Things rapidly getting worse at hagwon. Getting yelled at once or more everyday. I filed a petition to the labor board. Boss threatened some kinda legal action against me today. Basically saying they spoke with a lawyer. Have to visit various offices on my day off to gather proof for taxes and pension. |
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Pianote
Joined: 29 Apr 2015
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:11 am Post subject: |
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Since the hagwon isn't paying the pension, can I quit-get out of the contract for that reason? Meaning if the pension service contacts them, and they won't pay up, can I break contract for that reason?
At this point it seems like they are going to give me a hard time everyday, unless I resign. |
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Fallacy
Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Location: ex-ROK
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| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:13 am Post subject: |
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| Pianote wrote: |
| Things rapidly getting worse at hagwon. Getting yelled at once or more everyday. I filed a petition to the labor board. Boss threatened some kinda legal action against me today. Basically saying they spoke with a lawyer. Have to visit various offices on my day off to gather proof for taxes and pension. |
And:
| Pianote wrote: |
| Since the hagwon isn't paying the pension, can I quit-get out of the contract for that reason? Meaning if the pension service contacts them, and they won't pay up, can I break contract for that reason? At this point it seems like they are going to give me a hard time everyday, unless I resign. |
Given the immediacy and urgency of your situation, I would go to the professionals directly at this point. Meanwhile, continue to document everything, including video/audio evidence gathering to corroborate. Rather than resign, just insert outside parties between you and the other side, and then let that action take effect. Good luck. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallacy wrote: |
| The OP writes the word "pension" and refers to it not being paid; then 7 posts later, bossface writes both "pension" and "social security" in a response to the post by World Traveler just before; finally 3 posts later, WT writes "social security" in a follow-up. Are these terms to be taken as equals in meaning? I did not address them as such in my post, so to clarify: if one is a citizen of any country other than the ROK, and while working in the ROK, one is not paying into any "social security" program mandated by any country other than the ROK, that is okay, for there are alternatives, such as the nationally mandated or privately elective "pension" programs on offer in the ROK. Barring those, another alternative would be just taking cash and then investing in a stock market trading account, whereby doubling your money is also possible given enough time, skill, or luck. Thus, being stupid and getting screwed are terms that can still be avoided, and I get to continue disagreeing with WT. |
Kind of a late reply here but I just saw this one now. I would have to disagree with you here. (see the bolded part). Sure you can double your money...but you can also lose it all...whereas the pension account is guaranteed Furthermore let's look at the three factors you listed. Every month the amount of pension you put in is doubled...hard to find that in the average stock market trading account, so that accounts for time. As for skill, don't make me laugh. If people had the skill to double their money repeatedly, they wouldn't be teaching here but working in a much more remunerative position back home such as the finance industry or playing the stock market. And finally as for luck...again people here are teaching in Korea...not exactly lottery winner style luck I must say. 
So yes in the majority of cases one is throwing money away by not investing in pension (not to mention breaking the law). And not only that, but if the pension office should find out that one is NOT paying pension, then you will have to back pay for all the months you DIDN'T pay, including working at previous employers...and if those employers have gone out of business in the meantime...then you are out of luck. |
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Fallacy
Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Location: ex-ROK
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:22 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Sure you can double your money...but you can also lose it all...whereas the pension account is guaranteed. |
That is correct. Calculated risk vs. risk aversity. Financial investing requires a capitalist motivation, but there are those who would prefer to wait for the guaranteed outcome. My comments were not advocating a plan of action either way, just disputing that someone is "stupid" or "screwing themselves," to use World Traveler's syntax. It very well may be that a capitalist is willing to assume an investment risk with the potential for a greater nearer-term outcome, and if that turns out to be the case, then stupid will not be an accurate description. Maybe I should include the properly worded standard Investment Disclaimer:
| Quote: |
The statements in this posted release relating to matters that are not historical facts are “forward-looking statements” within the meaning of the investment securities laws. Forward-looking statements use words such as “anticipate,” “project,” “expect,” “plan,” “goal,” “forecast,” “intend,” “should,” “would,” “could,” “believe,” “may,” and similar expressions and statements regarding plans and objectives for future operations. These statements are based on beliefs and assumptions and those of general counsel using currently available information and expectations as of the date hereof, are not guarantees of future performance and involve certain risks and uncertainties. Although we and our general counsel believe that such expectations reflected in such forward-looking statements are reasonable, neither we nor general counsel can give assurance that our expectations will prove to be correct. All statements concerning our expectations for future results of operations are based on forecasts for our existing operations and do not include the potential impact of any future acquisitions. Our forward-looking statements are subject to a variety of risks, uncertainties and assumptions. If one or more of these risks or uncertainties materialize, or if underlying assumptions prove incorrect, our actual results may vary materially from those anticipated, estimated, projected or expected. Certain factors could cause actual results to differ materially from results anticipated in the forward-looking-statements. These factors include, but are not limited to:
risks and uncertainties with respect to the actual quantities;
the economic viability of corporations, and other customers;
the demand for products in markets served;
ability to purchase and integrate future acquired operations;
ability to complete previously announced or contemplated acquisitions;
the availability and cost of additional debt and equity financing;
the possibility of reductions in production or shutdowns at facilities;
the effects of current and future government regulations and policies;
operational efficiency in carrying out routine operations and capital construction projects;
the possibility of terrorist attacks and the consequences of any such attacks;
general economic conditions; and
other financial, operations and legal risks and uncertainties detailed from time to time in required by governing agency filings.
The forward-looking statements speak only as of the date made and, other than as required by law, undertake no obligation to publicly update or revise any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise. |
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JohnML
Joined: 05 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| DaeguNL wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| For a male whose highest level of educational attainment is a BA, weekly median income in 2014 was $1,249. Times that by 52 is $64,948. 2015 wages are actually slightly higher, so over $65K per year is correct ($66,247 per year as a median by my calculations). ESL teachers in Korea do make half of that. So many factors to consider though. But I wouldn't say the cost of living in Korea is half of what it is in America. I feel like that's a huge exaggeration. Then again I could be wrong; it differs person to person according to lifestyle. |
now do it based on the 24-30 year old age bracket. because that is 90 % of teachers here. Not a chance does the average 25 year old in the west make 65,000 |
24-30 year olds in the US earn way over 65,000 on a regular basis. Infact the average starting salary for a graduate in my profession google is telling me is about 62,000 USD... consistent with my experience. Even the starting salary for education which is a shitty sector is 40,000 USD...
Figure 1: Average Salaries by Discipline
Broad Category 2013 Average Salary
Computer Science $58,547
Education $40,337
Engineering $62,062
Considering most young grads probably finish college at 22. That gives them 2-8 years to get a salary increase of 3,000. I can tell you after 3-5 years you are likely to have doubled your salary in many of these fields. Also Korea is more expensive than a lot of cities in American, it's not frickin' cheap. The average salary after 5 years is easily close to 100k a year. Which makes sense because there is no way I'm the only one slightly past mid 20's year old earning over 100k, not even in Korea. I could trade it all up at a moments notice though for 20k in ESL for working the same hours though. |
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