Korean Job Discussion Forums

[edwardcatflap]

[PRagic]

First you have to realize that, like it or not, Korea is an extremely hierarchal culture where status is for the most part ascribed. This is quite different, though not necessarily a polar opposite, of cultures that characterize many of the countries from which NETs hail.

So, yes, if you are a young teacher, a teacher with only a BA (especially if it's in a non-education field), and are in a contracted, single term (though potentially extendable) position, you're not very high on the totem pole of life. That's the reality. Suck it up.

I've talked with several international scholars working in the US. They say the same thing as the international scholar working here. In the US, they feel that they need to be better than their local competition in order to succeed. Same here.

If you want your opinion recognized, if you want authority, if you want longer contracts or full-time employment status, then level the playing field. Much of the opinion denegrating Koreans and their attitude toward foreign teachers is quite one sided. Put yourself in their shoes. Yes, some interim relief will come just be getting older, but that's the passive part.

They learn English, so you learn Korean.
They emphasize degrees, so get degrees and certs.
They emphasize rankable achievement, so get some rankable achievements under your belt.
The men have to do time in the military, so do your time in the military. Ok, that one might not fly for everyone.
If you're here long-term, think about getting your K green card. You don't have to marry local to knock that out.

Now, this won't be for everyone, and, indeed, the OP was just here short term and was teaching kids so he had no vested interest. Unless you're a hagwon owner, then, sure, you are for the most part replaceable unless you start ticking off that checklist above.

If you want long term stablility at universities as an academic, get the Doctorate, do the research, get published, stay professionally active, etc.

If you want to be an ESL instructor long-term, get the related MA, get the buzz and whistle certs, and get on the conference trail.

If you want to go corporate here, you have to bring something to the table that they don't have in-country and in-house already. STEM degrees, the higher the better, and big name MBAs go a long way.

If you want to open your own business (bar, restaurant, study room, etc..) do your homework, get some related experience, and go for it. Offer something up that is tough to find here and do it right.

Augmenting all of the above should be a goal of leveling the playing field as best you can. And try avoiding the 'holier than thou' , know it all attitude when it comes to how things 'should be done' here. That's typical culture shock material and it never helps your position vis-a-vis employers, or friends for that matter.

[edwardcatflap]

[PRagic]

I get what you're saying, but that's why I specifically gave examples other than those applicable only to my area of academe.

Basically, my point was that the OP overgeneralized when he said that, "Koreans will never give you the proper respect as a teacher because to their eyes you are all replaceable...always." In his defence, he admits as much.

Yes, his experience was limited to a kiddy hagwon, but his inference can't be generalized to all career paths here, or at least it doesn't have to be.

Have ESL university programs cleaned house? Sure. Off the top of my head Konkuk and SNU come to mind.

[edwardcatflap]

Ok but if we just look at TEFL/TESOL in Korea, a lot of universities are not really that different from hagwans in their recruitment policies. They have to take people with Masters but for a lot of them that's a Masters in anything. Just the same as hagwans that have to take anyone with a BA in anything. Most universities probably think the job of a a TEFL visiting professor, or whatever they call them, can be done by any random native speaker, hence the clear outs of the old guard and advertising for females. Are you really going to get much more respect at places like that with extra qualifications, military service, rankable achievements etc.?.. Sure they'll probably appreciate it if you speak Korean but just so they don't have to make any effort with their terrible English.

[EZE]

[swashbuckler]

[swashbuckler]

[nbm]

Just a side note for other lurkers reading this:

I think the OP worked at a hagwon in daechi called I*L*E. I also work in daechi, and I have met people who used to work there, and they all told me that their experience was horrible. This hagwon pays well, but the work is draining. Actually the OP should have been paid more than 4.5 mil won, teachers who worked there before got paid over 5 and 6 for the same hours, but recently they have been ripping new teachers off since 2013. Like the OP says, if your aim is to earn a lot and save money, teach in daechi/ apgu etc, but not at this hagwon. It will take over your life.

[PRagic]

lol....still fixated with those examples? Talk about beating a dead horse! Not that I wish to extend the discussion, but obviously I'm not the only one who knows of these positions. I only know about them because some people holding them told me about them.

Regardless, the point is that you can earn more in some of the better u gigs, the ones that provide salary increases, at least up to a certain ceiling, and that don't impose term limits.

And Edward has a point; there are universities that don't value related MAs and experience. People WITH related MAs and experience who are professionally active in one way or another, however, tend to gravitate toward universities that do value them.

Some people, to the contrary, might just throw up their hands and take what's dished out passively. Might be because they don't know of better opportunities, might be because they're not inclined to deal with change, or it might be because they for whatever reason feel that they don't deserve better. Humans are a diverse bunch. But that could be said of people in corporate land and academe as well.

[dhan89]

[Who's Your Daddy?]

[PRagic]

Now you have. Nice to meet you. Most tenure track professors are on multiple year contracts that go from the time of hire to the time of review for promotion to the next rank. Then after you make full professor with tenure, I believe the contacts are for 6 or 8 years at a pop. Same applies for K profs, too, before anyone starts on about discrimination, and that's pretty standard in N. America as well.

Some of the financial editors I know also have multiple year contracts. Think 3 years is the norm, but don't quote me.

But you're right in that most ESL teachers here are on one year contracts, be they working at institutes, universities, or unigwons.

[motiontodismiss]

[PRagic]

A corporate career anywhere is going to be a professional and emotional rollercoaster.

None of my friends or family in corporate slots, here, in N. America, or in Europe, have had a steady, soul enriching expience. You're bound to work in positions you don't like, to have bosses that suck, to have your pay and bonuses screwed with, and to vacation less than you'd like.

And once you get to the 100K break off point, your time is not your own, especially in N. America. Once a few pegs up in the management hierarchy, you'll be expected to deal with customers or internal issues at the drop of a hat, anytime, anywhere.

If you have a decent career, you'll hopefully be in a position where you can deflect a lot of the BS by the time you're, say, in your upper 40s to early 50s, and then pad your nest egg until you retire (perferably early).

The problem? Many live well beyon their means and buy into the title on their name cards. Seen that happen a LOT, and it explains why so many Americans in particular have pathetically little saved for retirement even by the time they hit 50.

In the end, no matter the career, be it corporate, ESL or academe, and no matter where you do it, in the end, money spells freedom. If you want freedom and flexability, you need to build up the FU account. It's very liberating.