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Differences between foreigners and Koreans
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Hokie21



Joined: 01 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:11 am    Post subject: Differences between foreigners and Koreans Reply with quote

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2015/07/162_183210.html

After The Korea Times published my article, some people agreed with most of what I said. Others might think that I was pretty biased. Besides, the producer of the Café Seoul podcast wanted to request an interview with me, because my article has become a discussion topic among expats in Seoul.

Anyway, my column has proved to be controversial and sensitive. However, I want to write about the same issue again to reduce misunderstandings between Koreans and foreigners. I also aim to promote cultural awareness between locals and expats by touching on a provocative theme.

I like to drink beer, especially during the sizzling summer. I drink a beer fast to cool down. Spending two minutes drinking a beer is too long for me. I watched a movie star advertise a beer brand on TV. He expressed his pleasure after consuming it. His actions provoke TV viewers to think of beer and drink it more and more.

On the contrary, most foreigners talk over a beer and they don't eat the side dishes such as dried squid, snacks and fruit, which average Koreans usually enjoy with beer. Hence, Westerners are more economical than Koreans when they drink beer. They don't have to waste a lot of money on eating food with beer. Nevertheless, I still don't understand many foreigners who take 30 minutes to drink a draft beer during a conversation. These foreigners drink a beer too patiently.

In Korea, seniors generally pay the money for juniors when they go out together for dinner and go to the bar to hang out. I definitely say that Koreans have an immaculate virtue, which foreigners cannot think of. A senior feels the responsibility for taking care of juniors by treating them to some food using his money. The juniors meanwhile feel happier to know that their seniors are willing to care them. Later, they will show more sincerity to their seniors. I think the unilateral trade from the seniors is the steppingstone to progressing favorable friendship with the juniors.

In a nutshell, Koreans are so generous and benevolent. I wonder if this character originates from a "collective society," in which people prefer "we" to "I."

I think that Koreans are more polite and respectful to the old. I also think foreigners should learn from Koreans about how they treat the aged with courtesy. A British friend of mine alleged that he could punch an elderly person if he is lazy and an alcoholic, while I said that we should embrace them whatever they do.

Westerners are even reluctant to give special favor for an old lady. For instance, when I was in Brisbane, Australia, I saw a vacant seat on the bus stop. As I was a conventional Korean man, I was supposed to yield it to the old lady who stood right next to me. At the moment I found a young lady staring at me so unkindly and sharply. She seemed to be extremely upset with me. She wanted to take the seat for herself. She never cared about the person who was at least 70.

I think that Westerners hardly regard the elderly as important and trustworthy. Worse, they make light of them, because they are physically weak. What I am saying is that ''All men are equal" does not make sense in this regard. We should be more attentive to the old who have devoted their life to the community. They are worthy of being loved and revered whatever they are.

On the other hand, I saw a Canadian friend in a bus who has lived in Gwangju for over 10 years. He was willing to give his seat to the old lady after finding that she was standing right behind his seat. I thought that Korean society has taught him how to respect the old and that a desirable tradition in Korea has affected him in a more positive way.

The writer lives in Gwangju, which literally means the "City of Light." His email address is [email protected].
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yodanole



Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: La Florida

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A primer on some of the issues ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCsBQc15jU8
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Fallacy



Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Location: ex-ROK

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The enlightenment has arrived. How fascinating, this beaten horse message of anecdotally-derived, agenda-driven focus on differences between people and other people! If only there could be some similarities to balance the viewpoint, or contradictions to dilute the smug condescension, or ... no matter. Do go on. You were saying?
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northway



Joined: 05 Jul 2010

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like how many Koreans have gone out of their way to tear him a new one in the comments.
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tiger fancini



Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People who write this type of drivel, along with "newspapers" that publish them, certainly don't do Korea any favours. Thankfully, the article is not representative of what the general population thinks.
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PeteJB



Joined: 06 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Differences between foreigners and Koreans


Just reading the title is enough for me to not even bother with the article. Foreigners are from a diverse range of countries - I'm assuming this article is aimed at the differences between your typical Korean and your typical misrepresented Waegook (with an American flag on their T-Shirt) - Completely ignoring most of Europe; which has more diversity than a coral reef.

Quote:
I definitely say that Koreans have an immaculate virtue, which foreigners cannot think of.


Translation: We're better than you. Just another one of those stuck in a bubble of grand dillusion that believe 'their way' is the correct way.

Quote:
In a nutshell, Koreans are so generous and benevolent.


Say that to the countless workers below the legal minimum wage, the thousands of women that end up in brothels and the elderly roaming the streets with carts. And that's just on the surface. Let's not even get started with the distribution of wealth in this country.

Quote:
I think that Koreans are more polite and respectful to the old.


Has this guy ever left his dwelling?

Oh wait, he's from Gwangju. Ah. No wonder it felt like I'd gone back in time.
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coralreefer_1



Joined: 19 Jan 2009

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't believe so many people didn't see what this guy was doing.

Obvious troll is obvious.
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Sister Ray



Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Location: Fukuoka

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Differences between foreigners and Koreans Reply with quote

Hokie21 wrote:

I think that Koreans are more polite and respectful to the old. I also think foreigners should learn from Koreans about how they treat the aged with courtesy.


Ha ha, I usually wouldn't bother to comment on such a preposterous article, but this comment really struck me.

Of course, if this writer had put any thought or effort into his article at all, they'd be aware that Korea currently has the highest elderly poverty rate in the OECD. The country treats its aged population with utter contempt.

Just take a walk around Tapgol Park or Nakwon area of central Seoul to see the results of this complete lack of regard. Hundreds of seniors, abandoned by their families, spending their twilight years drinking, squabbling and scuffling day after day, summer and winter, in the back streets of Jongno. A more pitiful sight I never saw in all my years in Korea.

Korea should be deeply ashamed of how it treats its elderly.
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rjrs0510



Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I completely agree with sister ray, the way the elderly are treated here is horrifying. Many living in abject poverty and many others killing themselves; the suicide rate among the elderly here is shameful. I would also add that baby exporting doesn't look so great either... and animal rights (Moran market anyone). Anyway, there are many good things about Korea...but the original post is just vacuous and I hope it is deliberately so. If the writer actually believes what he has written, I feel bad for him.
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Zyzyfer



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coralreefer_1 wrote:
I can't believe so many people didn't see what this guy was doing.

Obvious troll is obvious.


Heh. I have a suspicion that it was written by some senior-citizen punching foreigner as a prank. It's just a little too easy to lampoon.

edit - By the way, here is the previous article that gets mentioned. It contains this little nugget of insight:

Quote:
Western women think that they are equal to men.
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PeteJB



Joined: 06 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
edit - By the way, here is the previous article that gets mentioned. It contains this little nugget of insight:

Western women think that they are equal to men.


That's a whole other can of worms and way too complicated to be summed up in just a few sentences. Not all women feel that way. It usually boils down to three groups: those that believe in equal rights for all, those that believe men are superior, and those that believe women are superior (or can do no wrong). Unfortunately, the latter two are generally the most outspoken and go beserk at the slighest misdemeanor. Hence we have pointless Twitter battles and enrageeeed feminists steaming at the ears. There is talk that feminism has gone too far in some cases, and that the balance or 'pendulum' is swinging too much the other way in favour of women, especially in the courts. But I can't really support that argument at this point.

Anyway, back on topic...
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Zyzyfer



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PeteJB wrote:
Quote:
edit - By the way, here is the previous article that gets mentioned. It contains this little nugget of insight:

Western women think that they are equal to men.


That's a whole other can of worms and way too complicated to be summed up in just a few sentences.


Not really.

My intention was to highlight how the author made a sweeping generalization about Western women. Attempting to crack open the can of worms that was his nuanced slight at gender equality in an effort to derail this (currently) lighthearted thread into some sort of prosaic war on the assorted characteristics of feminism is all on you.

Quote:
Anyway, back on topic...


Yay!
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nicwr2002



Joined: 17 Aug 2011

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Differences between foreigners and Koreans Reply with quote

Hokie21 wrote:
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2015/07/162_183210.html

After The Korea Times published my article, some people agreed with most of what I said. Others might think that I was pretty biased. Besides, the producer of the Café Seoul podcast wanted to request an interview with me, because my article has become a discussion topic among expats in Seoul.

Anyway, my column has proved to be controversial and sensitive. However, I want to write about the same issue again to reduce misunderstandings between Koreans and foreigners. I also aim to promote cultural awareness between locals and expats by touching on a provocative theme.

I like to drink beer, especially during the sizzling summer. I drink a beer fast to cool down. Spending two minutes drinking a beer is too long for me. I watched a movie star advertise a beer brand on TV. He expressed his pleasure after consuming it. His actions provoke TV viewers to think of beer and drink it more and more.

On the contrary, most foreigners talk over a beer and they don't eat the side dishes such as dried squid, snacks and fruit, which average Koreans usually enjoy with beer. Hence, Westerners are more economical than Koreans when they drink beer. They don't have to waste a lot of money on eating food with beer. Nevertheless, I still don't understand many foreigners who take 30 minutes to drink a draft beer during a conversation. These foreigners drink a beer too patiently.

In Korea, seniors generally pay the money for juniors when they go out together for dinner and go to the bar to hang out. I definitely say that Koreans have an immaculate virtue, which foreigners cannot think of. A senior feels the responsibility for taking care of juniors by treating them to some food using his money. The juniors meanwhile feel happier to know that their seniors are willing to care them. Later, they will show more sincerity to their seniors. I think the unilateral trade from the seniors is the steppingstone to progressing favorable friendship with the juniors.

In a nutshell, Koreans are so generous and benevolent. I wonder if this character originates from a "collective society," in which people prefer "we" to "I."

I think that Koreans are more polite and respectful to the old. I also think foreigners should learn from Koreans about how they treat the aged with courtesy. A British friend of mine alleged that he could punch an elderly person if he is lazy and an alcoholic, while I said that we should embrace them whatever they do.

Westerners are even reluctant to give special favor for an old lady. For instance, when I was in Brisbane, Australia, I saw a vacant seat on the bus stop. As I was a conventional Korean man, I was supposed to yield it to the old lady who stood right next to me. At the moment I found a young lady staring at me so unkindly and sharply. She seemed to be extremely upset with me. She wanted to take the seat for herself. She never cared about the person who was at least 70.

I think that Westerners hardly regard the elderly as important and trustworthy. Worse, they make light of them, because they are physically weak. What I am saying is that ''All men are equal" does not make sense in this regard. We should be more attentive to the old who have devoted their life to the community. They are worthy of being loved and revered whatever they are.

On the other hand, I saw a Canadian friend in a bus who has lived in Gwangju for over 10 years. He was willing to give his seat to the old lady after finding that she was standing right behind his seat. I thought that Korean society has taught him how to respect the old and that a desirable tradition in Korea has affected him in a more positive way.

The writer lives in Gwangju, which literally means the "City of Light." His email address is [email protected].


"The juniors meanwhile feel happier to know that their seniors are willing to care them." This is definitely a mistake a Korean would make.

"In a nutshell, Koreans are so generous and benevolent."
My anecdotal evidence is that they aren't truly generous because they always expect something in return. If someone gives you a Vita 500, then you are expected to reciprocate that "generosity" by giving them a drink as well. Even though you didn't want their gift in the first place, you must give them something back.
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PRagic



Joined: 24 Feb 2006

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not very in-depth, but, hey, at least he took the time to write something. In culture theory, culture is often referred to in terms of an iceberg; world view, values, and beliefs generally rest beneath the water, while behavior resides above the water. The corollary, of course, is that behavior is the easiest to see, but makes up a comparatively very small piece of the cultural whole. This is definitely a tip of the iceberg type observation.

This is also why there are numerous cultural dimensions derived from extensive research by any number of scholars, and an entire field (international organizational behavior) that deals with cultural abstractions and ramifications in society and in organizations.

The author would have been able to write a much more insightful speech by doing at least a bit of tertiary research into 'culture' and then organizing his observations on behavior while delving deeper into the cultural aspects that drive them. Sure, it has all already been done, but it would have made for a more interesting piece none-the-less if sources were cited properly.
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fermentation



Joined: 22 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Troll job perhaps. A blogger posted the writer's facebook which is open to visit. Dude seems to have a creepy obsession with foreigners.
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