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UN Slams Korea Over Racist Treatment of Foreign Teachers
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wooden nickels

Joined: 23 May 2010

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:24 pm Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

Savant wrote:

No, your claim that all ethnic Koreans working in Education are tested for HIV is based on the assumption that because you [as an ethnic Korean] were tested (can we really believe you at your word though) that all ethnic Koreans must have been tested too.

I want to address this again- You think I'm lying about me and the people I know getting a needle jammed in my arm and having to pee in a cup? Screw you dude.

And I said some, not all. Read more carefully. Can you at least acknowledge the possibility that ethnic Koreans on E-2s and F-4s at public schools are tested as well?

In 1850, in the United States, there were some black people who weren't slaves, but it doesn't mean that discrimination or racism didn't exist. Just because a few white people got the whip on their back, in Alabama, doesn't mean that racism and discrimination didn't exist in Alabama in 1850.

Your argument is simply a straw man. It is an argument to gradually get things of the core of the topic.

Scorpion

Joined: 15 Apr 2012

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:37 pm Post subject:

Awh shucks, Steelrails (an ethnic-Korean on an F-4 visa) wants to talk to us about how Koreans, who would never dream of discriminating against anyone, have discriminated against him. Let's all pull up our chairs and listen intently and with great sensitivity to his plight.

Scorpion

Joined: 15 Apr 2012

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:46 pm Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

Screw you dude.

LOL. On behalf of the entire E-2 community here on Daves let me say, And a fine good morning right back at you, sir!

Savant

Joined: 25 May 2007

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:58 pm Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

Savant wrote:

You still fail to see where the issue of discrimination is. You assert that some ethnic Koreans are tested for HIV but not ALL of them who work in the education field are. Whereas; ALL E-2 foreigners are required to be tested for HIV for issues of "morality" and "protecting the children".

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:44 pm Post subject:

SHGator428 wrote:

You are likely lying about that (where is your proof of it?) It's just like you did when you said you never claimed to be on an E-2 visa. You did that years ago, yet claim now that you didn't. You are a fraud on this board; a guy that trolls just for the sake of argument.

You could easily disprove your taking HIV and drug tests by posting a pic to your health record with your name and # blacked out. Do that.

I never claimed to be on an E-2 visa. Find the post and prove I'm lying. I don't have my HIV and drug test because I turned them into my school like everyone else does and I didn't keep a copy around. How many NETs out there keep their health checks on file? If I wanted to win an internet argument, I suppose I could go back to my old school and see if they have paperwork from 2 years ago on me lying around. Even if i did, people would probably just say it was a fake anyways. Why is it so hard for you guys to accept the possibility that Korean-Americans on E-2s or F-4s and working at public schools also had to take the tests?

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:13 pm Post subject:

wooden nickels wrote:

We aren't talking racism in general. We are talking about a specific policy. Now in order for that policy to be racist, it would have had to state that ethnic Koreans on E-2s were exempt from the test. The policy never stated that, nor was that policy ever implemented. The tests would also have to be applied to ALL foreigners, not just English teachers. Lastly, the fact that ethnic Koreans an F-4s working at public schools also had to take the tests is an indication that the policy was not written with a specific intent to discriminate, although it may be haphazardly applied.

Scorpion wrote:

Awh shucks, Steelrails (an ethnic-Korean on an F-4 visa) wants to talk to us about how Koreans, who would never dream of discriminating against anyone, have discriminated against him. Let's all pull up our chairs and listen intently and with great sensitivity to his plight.

I never said Koreans never discriminate, only that the claims regarding this policy are inaccurate. Also, nice job of insinuating that my view is invalid because of my ethnicity. I thought you were against racism. Lastly, we all know that there is often a clear preference for white faces and that Asians and ethnic Koreans can face discrimination in hiring. People have mentioned this. Where are all of you then? Are we being stigmatized and demonized?

It always mystifies me, the people out there who regularly post bigoted comments about Koreans, treat Korean-Americans as not truly American or part of the foreigner community, are silent when it comes to discriminatory hiring practices, complain about us talking about their experiences in Korea and then proceed to lecture Korean-Americans on how things are for Korean-Americans in Korea AND back home, and dismiss the opinions of Korean-Americans based solely on their ethnicity, and then go and wonder why we don't back every hyperbolic claim made about racism and accept their 100% innocence and the 100% guilt of Koreans.

I don't dismiss your opinions about what Koreans are thinking and what they are experiencing out of hand because you are not Korean. I don't dismiss your opinions out of hand regarding minority treatment back home, simply because you are not a minority.

[quote=Scorpion] LOL. On behalf of the entire E-2 community here on Daves let me say, And a fine good morning right back at you, sir![/quote]

You don't speak for the Korean-Americans on E-2 visas who had to take the tests as well. And on behalf of the F-4s who work at public schools and had to take the same tests, and your dismissal of such a thing as some lie, I say congratulations on putting up walls instead of building bridges.

Savant wrote:

And you fail to see that ALL E-2 foreigners, including ethnic Koreans, are required to take the tests. You also fail to note that not all foreigners who are teachers are required to take the tests. Non-ethnic Koreans on permanent resident or spousal visas are not required to take the tests if they work at a hagwon. Korean citizens of non-Korean descent are not required to take the tests. For the policy to be racist, it would have had to require those permanent residents and Korean citizens of non-Korean descent to take the tests and exempted ethnic Korean E-2s. The policy did not do that. We can argue about it being an undue burden or a violation of policy or just bad government policy, but the racism charge doesn't stick.

I notice that no one is outraged over other differences in standards between us and Korean teachers, like say requiring teaching certificates, housing compensation, assorted other responsibilities, the evaluations that they go to, etc. Everything is always just one direction.

Last edited by Steelrails on Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

SHGator428

Joined: 05 Sep 2014

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:14 pm Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

SHGator428 wrote:

Actually, you did on more than one occasion when trying to argue with people some time ago. You forgot about it because you bomb post so much nonsense. You are the guy that throws as much shit at the wall as possible hoping that some of it sticks. You are also the guys that even though when proven wrong again and again never concedes...just continues to lie over and over and over.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:17 pm Post subject:

SHGator428 wrote:

Steelrails wrote:

SHGator428 wrote:

Cite it. Maybe YOU are the one with the memory problem. Are you willing to accept the possibility that you might be mistaken?

SHGator428

Joined: 05 Sep 2014

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:52 pm Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

Cite it. Maybe YOU are the one with the memory problem. Are you willing to accept the possibility that you might be mistaken?

Nope, no need to cite anything. I know what you said and that is all that matters. YOU used to claim you were E2 when arguing with people. Rofl that I could ever be mistaken. You feel me?

SHGator428

Joined: 05 Sep 2014

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:59 am Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

SHGator428 wrote:

Anyone with the least bit of sense makes copies of all government related documents. Are you the exception to that? How many F4-s don't keep copies of their government documents? Why is it so hard for you guys to accept that you are possibly lying? The onus is on you that you aren't now.

Scorpion

Joined: 15 Apr 2012

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:59 am Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

You don't speak for the Korean-Americans on E-2 visas who had to take the tests as well.

You mean, all five of them?

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:03 am Post subject:

SHGator428 wrote:

Steelrails wrote:

SHGator428 wrote:

When it comes to the routine health check, yeah. 4 other EPIK teachers that did them at the same time as me. We just picked them up and each gave them to our teachers because it was no big deal. Believe it or not, the average NET that is just here for a year or two isn't that concerned over this. They're more interested in eating for the first time in 12 hours and the fact that we're in a relatively big city compared to our podunk town. Time to hit up EMart and Homeplus, go to a movie, shop, and eat at a non-Korean restaurant. Not make meticulous copies of a routine physical that's just a formality.

I get taxed once a year for my car. I may have this years receipt lying around. Old ones have gotten thrown away. I'm not a paper hoarder. It's been two years since I worked for EPIK.

I guess the closest description I can give you is my first test, before I had my own car. I had to take the bus to Jinju. In Jinju, you can't go to any normal hospital, you have to go to this shiny new one kinda on the outskirts of town. First I had to go to the desk with a translated piece of paper telling what them what needed to happen. Then they took me to this room on the first floor where they did a basic eye exam, took my BP, and measured my height and weight. Then it was off to the chest X-ray place. I think that was on the second or third floor. I can't remember. Did the chest x-ray, then it was back down to pee in a cup. That was on the first floor. I remember it was rather near the bathroom and its just some dixie cup with your name on it that gets thrown on a cart of other dixie cups. Not the most sanitary and controlled set up. After that it was go over and get your blood drawn. Then you gotta cash out at the desk and the report will be ready in a couple days. Then its off to get some food for the first time in 12 hours. And so it was for a few more years. I always hated it because my BP is somewhat high and I couldn't drink the night before, which was a waste of a perfectly good night before a day off of work.

That's me taking the test.

Quote:

The onus is always on the person accusing someone of lying to prove that that person is lying. You have no proof I ever said that. You assert your own infallibility of memory, something rather remarkable.

Last edited by Steelrails on Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:25 am; edited 1 time in total

SHGator428

Joined: 05 Sep 2014

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:23 am Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

But you aren't the average NET (according to you). How long have you been teaching in EPIK? How many tests have you done?

Btw, your 4 friends that you claim did that are fictitious. You then pile on the same crap that you always do here.

You are lying if you say that you don't keep any of your documents.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:27 am Post subject:

Scorpion wrote:

Steelrails wrote:

You don't speak for the Korean-Americans on E-2 visas who had to take the tests as well.

You mean, all five of them?

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=205985

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=233495

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=182124

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=233417

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=160674&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=45

All these talk about Korean-Americans on E-2s. And Dave's is not the center of the ESL world. Maybe its time to just accept that its not as rare as you are making it out to be.

Koharski
Mod Team

Joined: 20 Jul 2009

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:29 am Post subject:

Ladies, ladies, you are both pretty. Can we move on or take it to PMs, now? Koharski

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