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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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JohnML
Joined: 05 Jul 2015
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 Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| PRagic wrote: |
I’m sure this argument will be immensely inspirational to teachers of anything everywhere. You could say the same thing to K-12 teachers in N. America.
Take note, teachers! Newsflash! You will not make as much money as a senior software engineer or a deep sea sonar technician! Run away! Run away! |
First, you are right the same could be said about teachers in N America, . It's a shitty gig but better than ESL in Korea though (minus the awesome living abroad), secondly the argument was more - you will be earning 1/4 of job a) and almost 1/3 of job b) a native job. Again reinforcing the concept that teaching english is a dead end job.
Qualified natives almost always earn more than ESL'ers. |
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Fallacy
Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Location: ex-ROK
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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Statistics taken from the ROK Ministry of Employment and Labor (MOEL) website:
Nominal wage (+/- YOY)
2009 ------- 2010 ------- 2011 ------- 2012 ------- 2013
2,636 (2.6) 2,816 (6.81) 2,844 (1.0) 2,995 (5.3) 3,111 (3.9)
Working hours for regular employees (+/- YOY)
Total hours
184.4 (-0.2) 184.7 (0.2) 182.1 (-1.4) 179.9 (-1.2) 178.1 (-1.0)
Contractual hours of work
169.3 (0.2) 168.3 (-0.6) 168.5 (0.1) 167.2 (-0.82) 165.6 (-1.0)
Overtime hours
15.1 (-5.0) 16.4 (8.6) 13.6 (-17.1) 12.8 (-5.9) 12.5 (-2.3)
Education Industry (2014)
Days Hours Monthly payment
17.5 125.0 2,363,000 won
All industries - by degee attained (2014)
Undergraduate
20.1 156.9 2,879,000 won
Graduate
18.6 143.5 3,920,000 won
As for ageism, career peak earnings achieved within 40~49 age range. Seems like the above cited data can inform this discussion. Carry on. |
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Fallacy
Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Location: ex-ROK
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnML wrote: |
| Qualified natives almost always earn more than ESL'ers. |
Perhaps not. Perhaps instead the phrase "almost always" can be qualified more accurately according to the statistics cited above. |
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Fallacy
Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Location: ex-ROK
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 2:24 am Post subject: |
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More bad news for the job market: The ROK Ministry of Education announced results of its evaluation of universities today. They are trying to close inferior schools, and reduce the overall number of places available for students. Schools receiving a grade of D or E will not be eligible for government support for any new projects next year. D schools will continue to receive funding only for preexisting projects, while E Schools will receive cuts in any support, even for already existing projects. Four-year colleges that received a D+ include: Kangwon National University, Korea University Sejong Campus, and Konkuk University Global Campus. Schools that received a D grade include: Kangnam University and Gyeongju University. E grade schools include: Daegu University of Foreign Studies, Luther University and Seoul Christian University.
Due to this bad press, and these immediate budget cuts, anyone working at those schools can probably expect to be put on notice in the next few months. |
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Adam Carolla
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| Fallacy wrote: |
| Adam Carolla wrote: |
| But...teachers in N.A. can look forward to a systematic salary progression, have actual incentives to further their education, and a pretty early retirement age. |
Incorrect comparison. After school study private academies in NA operate similarly to hagwons in the ROK, minus housing. See "Star Academy" in NJ, USA for an example, and note the forum grumbling by existing and former staff there regarding the lack of benefits, opportunities for progress, etc. Apples to apples. These ongoing comparisons of ROK hagwon jobs vs. NA public school jobs are simply not applicable and inaccurate. |
I wasn't the one who brought up k-12 N.A. teachers. |
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Fallacy
Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Location: ex-ROK
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Adam Carolla wrote: |
| I wasn't the one who brought up k-12 N.A. teachers. |
Correct. My apologies. Redirect to the others who did instead. |
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JohnML
Joined: 05 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| Fallacy wrote: |
Statistics taken from the ROK Ministry of Employment and Labor (MOEL) website:
Nominal wage (+/- YOY)
2009 ------- 2010 ------- 2011 ------- 2012 ------- 2013
2,636 (2.6) 2,816 (6.81) 2,844 (1.0) 2,995 (5.3) 3,111 (3.9)
Working hours for regular employees (+/- YOY)
Total hours
184.4 (-0.2) 184.7 (0.2) 182.1 (-1.4) 179.9 (-1.2) 178.1 (-1.0)
Contractual hours of work
169.3 (0.2) 168.3 (-0.6) 168.5 (0.1) 167.2 (-0.82) 165.6 (-1.0)
Overtime hours
15.1 (-5.0) 16.4 (8.6) 13.6 (-17.1) 12.8 (-5.9) 12.5 (-2.3)
Education Industry (2014)
Days Hours Monthly payment
17.5 125.0 2,363,000 won
All industries - by degee attained (2014)
Undergraduate
20.1 156.9 2,879,000 won
Graduate
18.6 143.5 3,920,000 won
As for ageism, career peak earnings achieved within 40~49 age range. Seems like the above cited data can inform this discussion. Carry on. |
This seems extremely skewed, wages reported on by people themselves. Glassdoor has always reflected a good salary estimate, for every field I worked in including TEFL in China/Korea.
http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/English-Program-in-Korea-South-Korea-Salaries-EI_IE393665.0,24_IL.25,36_IN135.htm
For EPIK salaries and most people would agree, seems legit.
http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Samsung-Group-South-Korea-Salaries-EI_IE3363.0,13_IL.14,25_IN135.htm
Samsung South Korea salaries, there is over 1,500 in there. 70 million for senior (non managerial!) positions on average. That's without bonuses, managerial positions advertising 80 million which fits in with about 100 million after bonuses, then free training and whatnot... Easily 3 times ESL.
New grads earning 42 mil.
http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Hyundai-South-Korea-Salaries-EI_IE7474.0,7_IL.8,19_IN135.htm
Around 52 mil for mid level positions here. Much more than ESL.
http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary-survey.php?loc=114&loctype=1
Take a look at teaching salaries here, look at the bottom of the scale in the more qualified professions. 3-4 times as much.
International Labour Organization a non biased org puts South Koreans as the 10th highest in the world, averagely monthly income of $2,900... That's including min wage professions and everything below it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17512040
I am just throwing guesses about here but considering the same in the states you could put qualified professionals 2-3 times that amount... i.e. 6-9k usd a year... fits in perfectly with the other sources I provided. Where is ESL? Every website I'm looking at quotes 1.6-3 million, which an almost universal average of 2.2 million for salaries. Not even at the average South Korean salary after tax (they admittedly work more hours though).
It's nowhere near professionals who earn 6-9 million... without bonuses... I actually proved myself wrong, I thought ESL earned more than the average professional Korean. It seems that the worker (min wage + professional surveys), earns more than the average ESL dude. Add private tuition on top which averages at 1 million according to these TEFL websites. 3.2 million and you work the same hours if not more now.
Essentially if you do private tuition you can make 400,000/month more than the average Korean worker (maybe) working similar hours, although far more unstable but you are still a good 3-6 million short of an average qualified professional.
Edit: Now I'm going to include something else;
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/south-korea/wages
Look at the wage increase in South Korea in the last 3 years, it's going up. Quite significantly, if I had a graph of TEFL wages (which admittedly I can't find but I don't need to!). Which way do you think that graph would be going? Clue: Opposite direction. Many threads on this site from people registered on here for 5 + years alluding to the same.
This is fun, lets post more things! How do you suppose a normal expat who is not easily replaceable (TEFL teachers are!) earns?
http://www.expatinfodesk.com/news/2012/09/07/who-are-the-highest-paid-expats-in-asia/
Oh look at those salaries. This from an expat in another profession, nobody I know personally earns below 10 million a month. ESL is at the bottom of the barrel and it's started to claw itself out of that bottom somehow with wages getting lower. You wont' get the truth from most people on this website though - understandably as it's a TEFL website of course there is bias.
I went into this profession with wide eyes and the will to teach and I loved it, it's an awesome job. However I was going to get poor doing it, if you have prospects elsewhere REALLY consider your options before doing TEFL long term. |
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Brooks
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:53 am Post subject: |
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Are you kiding?
So how can people teach privately without getting caught?
In Japan this happens, but Korea?
I guess if you are sly enough. |
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