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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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 Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:44 am Post subject: Re: Been here 9 years! and can't get a Long Term Resident Vi |
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| swashbuckler wrote: |
| It's actually quite shocking that you've lived here for nine years but still can't pass level 3 TOPIK. |
The overwhelming majority of Westerners who have lived in Korea for nine plus years wouldn't be able to pass it. I've met A LOT of lifers. Very very few can converse even halfway decently in Korean. It's a hard language. And adults can't learn languages as well as children. Certainly not as quickly/effortlessly. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:48 am Post subject: Re: Been here 9 years! and can't get a Long Term Resident Vi |
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| swashbuckler wrote: |
| How would you feel if someone from your home country (England, I assume) had lived there for 10 years but still couldn't speak anything beyond a few simple phrases in English?? |
TOPIK 3 is not just a few simple phrases. It's hard as hell to pass, especially with the new format. English is world's lingua franca. Korean's not. So it makes less sense to invest thousands of hours into it to try to get good. |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 12:47 am Post subject: Re: Been here 9 years! and can't get a Long Term Resident Vi |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| swashbuckler wrote: |
| It's actually quite shocking that you've lived here for nine years but still can't pass level 3 TOPIK. |
The overwhelming majority of Westerners who have lived in Korea for nine plus years wouldn't be able to pass it. I've met A LOT of lifers. Very very few can converse even halfway decently in Korean. It's a hard language. And adults can't learn languages as well as children. Certainly not as quickly/effortlessly. |
There are those who can't but more often than not, there are those who WON'T. I've read this about expats in other countries like Thailand, too. Geez. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
One can get permanent residency in Hong Kong after 7 years.
I think the points visa is too restrictive. I think the visa was designed to placate the UN, and Korean government doesn't really want anyone to get it. |
Plenty have passed it and you can get it with minimal effort. |
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coralreefer_1
Joined: 19 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:25 am Post subject: |
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I wont make any comment about you having been here so long and having not learned Korean.
I will suggest though ( you asked for advice) to juyst get into the social Integration program and learn Korean. Even if you have no interest in Korean at all, register yourself and attend the class. It will take a long time, but you can pass the class even if you fail the tests...and move to the next level.
Say you took the level 3 course and made no effort to learn. Took the final test and fail. Ok, you take the same class again, and fail the test a second time. So then you take the class a 3rd term, and fail again but guess what? You get moved on to the next level anyway.
Even in level 5....you can take the class...fail...do again...fail...etc but if you do it enough times, they will push you through anyway.
Such would be an incredible waste of time, so it would be better to take the classes and actually learn and try to pass. Having said that, you can move through the course playing games on your phone and learn nothing, but eventually get the certificate. |
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SeoulNate
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Location: Hyehwa
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:33 am Post subject: Re: Been here 9 years! and can't get a Long Term Resident Vi |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| swashbuckler wrote: |
| It's actually quite shocking that you've lived here for nine years but still can't pass level 3 TOPIK. |
The overwhelming majority of Westerners who have lived in Korea for nine plus years wouldn't be able to pass it. I've met A LOT of lifers. Very very few can converse even halfway decently in Korean. It's a hard language. And adults can't learn languages as well as children. Certainly not as quickly/effortlessly. |
I see the CPH non believers are still in full force  |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:15 am Post subject: Re: Been here 9 years! and can't get a Long Term Resident Vi |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| swashbuckler wrote: |
| It's actually quite shocking that you've lived here for nine years but still can't pass level 3 TOPIK. |
The overwhelming majority of Westerners who have lived in Korea for nine plus years wouldn't be able to pass it. I've met A LOT of lifers. Very very few can converse even halfway decently in Korean. It's a hard language. And adults can't learn languages as well as children. Certainly not as quickly/effortlessly. |
And that is simply because they don't or won't try. Let's say you lived in Korea for 10 years. And you invest only one hour per day learning Korean. That's still 3650 hours...subtract some hours for breaks and days where it was not possible...and you are still looking at 3000+ hours. If those were SERIOUS hours...I find it hard to believe anyone after all that would not be able to at least hold a simple conversation.
http://www.languagetesting.com/how-long-does-it-take
According to the ETS Oral Proficiency Testing Manual
even someone with Minimal Aptitude can get to the Advanced High level in languages like Korean after 2400-2760 hours...quite a bit less than the 3000+ I postulated above in my post. And given the fact that one lives in Korea...they can find native speakers everywhere. Not that being a native speaker means that one is a great teacher but immersion is listed as one the key factors in attaining such proficiency.
The point is, it can be done and has been done. Most lifers here though, simply don't care or rely on their SO to take care of such details they can't handle. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| matthews_world wrote: |
| F2-99 with 5 years or more of E-2 services means that if you have completed 5 1-year contracts then any E-1, 2, 7 etc. would be eligible. It doesn't have to be conclusive (straight in a row). |
I thought immigration had other strict conditions to go with that. Thought ttompatz applied under that criteria and was rejected. I never tried because I figured it wouldnt happen. |
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DaeguNL
Joined: 08 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: Been here 9 years! and can't get a Long Term Resident Vi |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| swashbuckler wrote: |
| How would you feel if someone from your home country (England, I assume) had lived there for 10 years but still couldn't speak anything beyond a few simple phrases in English?? |
TOPIK 3 is not just a few simple phrases. It's hard as hell to pass, especially with the new format. English is world's lingua franca. Korean's not. So it makes less sense to invest thousands of hours into it to try to get good. |
TOPIK 3 is not thousands of hours. TOPIK 6 is
I passed TOPIK 2 at about 500 hours and TOPIK 4 after about 1000
(Uni Courses/korean hagwon/self study/language exchange).
Topik 3 would be somewhere in the middle. for someone like the OP that would be about an hour and a half a week. |
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DaeguNL
Joined: 08 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: Been here 9 years! and can't get a Long Term Resident Vi |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| swashbuckler wrote: |
| It's actually quite shocking that you've lived here for nine years but still can't pass level 3 TOPIK. |
The overwhelming majority of Westerners who have lived in Korea for nine plus years wouldn't be able to pass it. I've met A LOT of lifers. Very very few can converse even halfway decently in Korean. It's a hard language. And adults can't learn languages as well as children. Certainly not as quickly/effortlessly. |
And that is simply because they don't or won't try. Let's say you lived in Korea for 10 years. And you invest only one hour per day learning Korean. That's still 3650 hours...subtract some hours for breaks and days where it was not possible...and you are still looking at 3000+ hours. If those were SERIOUS hours...I find it hard to believe anyone after all that would not be able to at least hold a simple conversation.
http://www.languagetesting.com/how-long-does-it-take
According to the ETS Oral Proficiency Testing Manual
even someone with Minimal Aptitude can get to the Advanced High level in languages like Korean after 2400-2760 hours...quite a bit less than the 3000+ I postulated above in my post. And given the fact that one lives in Korea...they can find native speakers everywhere. Not that being a native speaker means that one is a great teacher but immersion is listed as one the key factors in attaining such proficiency.
The point is, it can be done and has been done. Most lifers here though, simply don't care or rely on their SO to take care of such details they can't handle. |
agreed. most of the lifers here would be an advanced level if they had even invested 2 hours a week. they usually only learn hangul with the diea that they will only be here a year or 2. after a few years they realize they can already comfortably order food,take a taxi, go shopping so they have no motivation to learn any more.
Its their choice whether to study or not, but no point complaining about the F visa points system when you dont have the language ability to get enough points. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: Been here 9 years! and can't get a Long Term Resident Vi |
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| DaeguNL wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| swashbuckler wrote: |
| It's actually quite shocking that you've lived here for nine years but still can't pass level 3 TOPIK. |
The overwhelming majority of Westerners who have lived in Korea for nine plus years wouldn't be able to pass it. I've met A LOT of lifers. Very very few can converse even halfway decently in Korean. It's a hard language. And adults can't learn languages as well as children. Certainly not as quickly/effortlessly. |
And that is simply because they don't or won't try. Let's say you lived in Korea for 10 years. And you invest only one hour per day learning Korean. That's still 3650 hours...subtract some hours for breaks and days where it was not possible...and you are still looking at 3000+ hours. If those were SERIOUS hours...I find it hard to believe anyone after all that would not be able to at least hold a simple conversation.
http://www.languagetesting.com/how-long-does-it-take
According to the ETS Oral Proficiency Testing Manual
even someone with Minimal Aptitude can get to the Advanced High level in languages like Korean after 2400-2760 hours...quite a bit less than the 3000+ I postulated above in my post. And given the fact that one lives in Korea...they can find native speakers everywhere. Not that being a native speaker means that one is a great teacher but immersion is listed as one the key factors in attaining such proficiency.
The point is, it can be done and has been done. Most lifers here though, simply don't care or rely on their SO to take care of such details they can't handle. |
agreed. most of the lifers here would be an advanced level if they had even invested 2 hours a week. they usually only learn hangul with the diea that they will only be here a year or 2. after a few years they realize they can already comfortably order food,take a taxi, go shopping so they have no motivation to learn any more.
Its their choice whether to study or not, but no point complaining about the F visa points system when you dont have the language ability to get enough points. |
It doesn't quite work that way.
You can't simply call it two hours a week over a few years = 10,000 hours so yay, you're an expert now.
You need to hit minimum levels of interaction and you also need to be continuing to practice the language all the time to retain what you're learning and use it naturally. The reason most people fail at just about anything is because "30 minutes a day!" sounds like so little because it is so little. 2 hours a week is nothing. If that were all it took Korea would be a completely bilingual country. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand, we live in a full-immersion environment where we are surrounded by native speakers of the language, so it's not hard at all to get all the passive practice one needs to maintain what one has learned. If the average foreigner really did engage in 30 minutes of effective practice a day, 5 days a week, between that and the casual, natural interactions they had with Koreans and the Korean-saturated environment, their Korean level should improve steadily. My personal suspicion is that most foreigners fail to learn Korean because they've got no idea at all how to actually learn a foreign language. Specifically, I think they vastly under-estimate the importance of vocabulary acquisition. If your passive vocabulary is only like 2000 words, yeah, you're not going to understand much. Even after seven years, I'm still saving new words in my phone for later study. Anyone who isn't doing the same thing -- and it doesn't take much time per day to do it -- is setting themselves up for failure. |
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tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm too busy working extra hours and bringing in extra income. I'm fluent in 2 languages and have taught both as a licensed language teacher. Learning a second or third language is a lot of work. |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| I think the reason foreigners don't learn Korean beyong survival basics is they often have no Korean friends. |
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kimchi_pizza
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Location: "Get back on the bus! Here it comes!"
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:10 am Post subject: |
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Gotta appreciate the complexity of it all. For a good reason. Nothing more damagin to
local and national economy than money invested or earned here only to be spent elsewhere.
Say an expat lived here for 15 years~ great. Where will that retirement be spent? Thailand?
Philippines? More concern is spent maken sure you stick around long enough that your income is back on the Korean table rather than say a questionable character lookn to leave once that pot has been swept in.
A single resident? No big deal. But a hundred expats? Seveal hundred? A thousand? Ouch~~ Korean income spent on foriegn soil? A painful pimple on any economy that can eventually become an absess.
But with one country lookn to catch up on Japan? The belt tightens... |
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