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Overture1928
Joined: 12 Jan 2014
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 Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:05 am Post subject: 3.3% vs NPS/NHIS. Calculating what you lose out on |
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| I made a document that compares the salary of a person who takes 3.3% vs one who enrols in the national pension/medical/tax. Looking at a base salary range of 2.0-2.5, the average loss over 1 year seems to be around 1,000,000원. Not to mention loss of 2 dental cleanings, and perhaps even more if you needed medical treatment/operation. At first glance 3.3% looks like higher takeaway per month (and it is), but when you factor in the pension contribution you gain when you leave through NPS, 3.3% is behind. That is of course you come from a country that can claim the pension. Anyway, thought it might be interesting/useful for some of you. http://imgur.com/gallery/JhZXtig |
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Porksta
Joined: 05 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| You only get one cleaning with NHIC, not two. |
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Overture1928
Joined: 12 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Porksta wrote: |
| You only get one cleaning with NHIC, not two. |
I thought it was one per calendar year. For example if you started a job in March of 2016, you could have one through what remained in 2016 and another once 2017 hit. I thought I read that somewhere on this forum, but I could be wrong. |
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denverdeath
Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: Boo-sahn
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| I didn't actually look (much) at your data as I was having some trouble viewing it on my phone. Did you take into consideration that a lot (or at least some) of those 3.3ers are salaried for 3mil or sth, not 2-2.5? Gawdawful hrs, no vacation days, etc I know. Just was wondering if you factored that into your equations or not. |
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Overture1928
Joined: 12 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| denverdeath wrote: |
| I didn't actually look (much) at your data as I was having some trouble viewing it on my phone. Did you take into consideration that a lot (or at least some) of those 3.3ers are salaried for 3mil or sth, not 2-2.5? Gawdawful hrs, no vacation days, etc I know. Just was wondering if you factored that into your equations or not. |
The chart goes up to 4,000,000 base salary so you can check. But a base salary of 3,000,000 at 3.3% loses 657,240원 per year vs national pension/medical/tax. |
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denverdeath
Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: Boo-sahn
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| Overture1928 wrote: |
| denverdeath wrote: |
| I didn't actually look (much) at your data as I was having some trouble viewing it on my phone. Did you take into consideration that a lot (or at least some) of those 3.3ers are salaried for 3mil or sth, not 2-2.5? Gawdawful hrs, no vacation days, etc I know. Just was wondering if you factored that into your equations or not. |
The chart goes up to 4,000,000 base salary so you can check. But a base salary of 3,000,000 at 3.3% loses 657,240원 per year vs national pension/medical/tax. |
Yeah, but the thing with your numbers is that they don't actually equate. 3-to-3, sure. But most of those places that offer 3.3 to the Independent Contractor with a base of 3 are NOT offering 3 to the ones they hire "legally". Those ones are offered 2.0 or maybe a max of 2.3. I think, in your numbers, you also assume that the independent contractor actually pays into pension and medical insurance, when many actually don't, you know? In a perfect world? Sure the legals would be making more here IF rules were followed and blah, blah. However, I don't think that's the case. |
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Overture1928
Joined: 12 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:54 am Post subject: |
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| denverdeath wrote: |
| Overture1928 wrote: |
| denverdeath wrote: |
| I didn't actually look (much) at your data as I was having some trouble viewing it on my phone. Did you take into consideration that a lot (or at least some) of those 3.3ers are salaried for 3mil or sth, not 2-2.5? Gawdawful hrs, no vacation days, etc I know. Just was wondering if you factored that into your equations or not. |
The chart goes up to 4,000,000 base salary so you can check. But a base salary of 3,000,000 at 3.3% loses 657,240원 per year vs national pension/medical/tax. |
Yeah, but the thing with your numbers is that they don't actually equate. 3-to-3, sure. But most of those places that offer 3.3 to the Independent Contractor with a base of 3 are NOT offering 3 to the ones they hire "legally". Those ones are offered 2.0 or maybe a max of 2.3. I think, in your numbers, you also assume that the independent contractor actually pays into pension and medical insurance, when many actually don't, you know? In a perfect world? Sure the legals would be making more here IF rules were followed and blah, blah. However, I don't think that's the case. |
I am not sure you are reading my chart correctly. I do not assume the IC pays into any pension or medical. On the left side of the chart there is given salary and how much you are taxed/earn at 3.3%. Over on the right side of the chart there is the tax/medical/pension contributions and yearly earning for someone who is not paying 3.3%. The middle column (3.3% vs NHIS/NPS) shows the Yearly income of a legal worker subtracted from the yearly of a 3.3% worker.
Example: 2,300,000 @ 3.3% = 26,689,200 // 2,300,000 @ NPS/NHIS/NTS/ = 27,675,420.
The legal worker makes 986,220 more than the IC. See chart to understand better.
Sure a pure salary of 3,000,000 at 3.3% vs pure salary of 2,300,000 (we are disregarding housing allowance) with proper tax/benefits is going to go to the IC worker. I am trying to point out if the hagwon gives you the option of 2.3 with or without pension/medical, take the pension/medical. They often try and tell you that you're going to be deducted a lot each month and "make less money". But if you are patient, then you are going to make more (provided your hagwon actually reports your salary correctly). |
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denverdeath
Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: Boo-sahn
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| Overture1928 wrote: |
| denverdeath wrote: |
| Overture1928 wrote: |
| denverdeath wrote: |
| I didn't actually look (much) at your data as I was having some trouble viewing it on my phone. Did you take into consideration that a lot (or at least some) of those 3.3ers are salaried for 3mil or sth, not 2-2.5? Gawdawful hrs, no vacation days, etc I know. Just was wondering if you factored that into your equations or not. |
The chart goes up to 4,000,000 base salary so you can check. But a base salary of 3,000,000 at 3.3% loses 657,240원 per year vs national pension/medical/tax. |
Yeah, but the thing with your numbers is that they don't actually equate. 3-to-3, sure. But most of those places that offer 3.3 to the Independent Contractor with a base of 3 are NOT offering 3 to the ones they hire "legally". Those ones are offered 2.0 or maybe a max of 2.3. I think, in your numbers, you also assume that the independent contractor actually pays into pension and medical insurance, when many actually don't, you know? In a perfect world? Sure the legals would be making more here IF rules were followed and blah, blah. However, I don't think that's the case. |
I am not sure you are reading my chart correctly. I do not assume the IC pays into any pension or medical. On the left side of the chart there is given salary and how much you are taxed/earn at 3.3%. Over on the right side of the chart there is the tax/medical/pension contributions and yearly earning for someone who is not paying 3.3%. The middle column (3.3% vs NHIS/NPS) shows the Yearly income of a legal worker subtracted from the yearly of a 3.3% worker.
Example: 2,300,000 @ 3.3% = 26,689,200 // 2,300,000 @ NPS/NHIS/NTS/ = 27,675,420.
The legal worker makes 986,220 more than the IC. See chart to understand better.
Sure a pure salary of 3,000,000 at 3.3% vs pure salary of 2,300,000 (we are disregarding housing allowance) with proper tax/benefits is going to go to the IC worker. I am trying to point out if the hagwon gives you the option of 2.3 with or without pension/medical, take the pension/medical. They often try and tell you that you're going to be deducted a lot each month and "make less money". But if you are patient, then you are going to make more (provided your hagwon actually reports your salary correctly). |
I never said you were WRONG, dude. Just said that your figures may be a bit misleading is all. |
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denverdeath
Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: Boo-sahn
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| AND, I would actually have to say that around 60% of what you have to say, and probably the same for me, is pretty much wrong...or right. Who knows? Honestly? I DONT CARE. But, definitely, your numbers could affect an E2 versus an F4 for a yr or two. Most of those dudes don't stay that long though, right? |
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hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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what is not mentioned again the IC status IS ILLEGAL for E2 Visa holders, the Korean Supreme Court ruled this way in the CDI case, so why are you having this discussion unless you are here on an F visa.
You should be focused on stopped being taken by these scheisters who say IC status is legal and better than taking NPS/NHIC |
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