|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
|
 Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:30 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| What I probably said was I think at a complete beginner stage it's useful to have someone who can explain things in your own language but post elementary I'd rather ditch it. |
But after ten plus years in Korea and a Korean wife, you are still not at the post elementary level, which is the norm for most people in that situation...so when referring to a beginner class you were referring to your own situation is what I mean. And the situation of most others. It's very, very rare for me to meet someone with a Korean wife who has lived in Korean for ten plus years who is capable of speaking and understanding the Korean language beyond a basic elementary level. Those people are "beginners".
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| I would recommend a beginner's class to have a teacher who knows some L1, to avoid demotivation. |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| One of the biggest things I hear again and again is complaints about foreigners not bothering to learn the language and the sense of disrespect it causes. |
I imagine, though, that you hear these complaints again and again from people because they know you can speak Korean. Along the lines of 'you're one of the good foreigners etc etc...' Having been here 10 years and not knowing any Korean, I don't get to hear them. |
If you can't understand Korean and most of the teachers you observe teach mostly in Korean how can you properly evaluate the lesson if you don't know what they are saying? Seems like a waste. I would think a bilingual person would be better suited for the job you do...but then again, you are helping the Korean government to phase out native teachers in the public schools by training Koreans to render NETs unnecessary. They need an outsider to say "Speak more English; speak less Korean" to the teachers I guess. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Which is how they operate at Sookmyung actually. And their classes aren't on Saturday. |
There were and are Saturday classes there, and those were/are their most famous ones. But you did a different schedule. Good classes? Maybe. But you still don't know any Korean, so maybe not. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JohnML
Joined: 05 Jul 2015
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tophatcat wrote: |
| JohnML wrote: |
| tophatcat wrote: |
Dear JohnML
Not everyone is stuck at 24 million per year.
I know some teachers who make more than 35 million per year.
You don't know my salary. You are making a false claim by saying so. Therefor, no need to call me a liar.
"irregardless" LMAO |
I advise you read over posts a little more carefully before responding. At no point did I say nobody was earning over 35 at no point did I say everyone was stuck at 24 million. I just said that huge demand you claim isn't there at all your response actually verifies this - when you wrote "some teachers". I also not once claimed to know your salary, I just said a lot of people lie about it and I've caught them out on it. People don't get so offended as you without reason, so what's your reason?
However if you want to go there, I absolutely believe you are a liar from the way you act, what of it? The last response is just stereotypical of someone who has no ground basis for an argument too, whilst that might be the type of response that would work against one of your 8 year old students when they call you strange looking. It's not something that is gonna work on someone like me, especially since you weren't the person who even picked up on it... |
Now you are saying that there are teachers who are making more than 24 million and 35 million. Well, I'm glad that we got that mistake corrected. Or, was that just another typo you made?
I'm not offended, JohnML. I'm just going through and helping you clean the mistakes in your posts. Your posts just seem to bounce around all over the place with mistakes and typos.
Wow! Why would you outright call a person a liar when you have nothing to base it on?
Let's not get emotional, JohnML. Let's stick to fact based knowledge. No need for the childish name calling. Let's be adults here. |
"This is total nonsense and everyone knows it. There is absolutely not anything remotely resembling a high demand for English teachers on 100 mil+ salaries, this is "smh" material. There is a decent/large demand for English teachers on 24 million/year salaries. There is barely any demand for English teachers above 35 million/year. Are you actually aware you are completely misleading people with this? Same goes to many of these people who are quoting ridiculous salaries. To feed your ego, you are misleading other people. Often a double lie quoting salaries you have "heard" of but aren't earning anywhere near."
Please highlight in my response where I said no English teacher earns 35+ million. Please, I'll wait. Now it's a case of you know you are wrong but are digging yourself into a deeper hole. Also as far as I'm concerned your lame insults and backtracking to find off topic material to insult me with (picking up on another posters correction) would suggest to me you are the one getting emotional. I could call you out on quite a few things including your lack of reading skills? Honestly I couldn't care less though. I'll leave it up to other people to decide who they think is backing up their arguments.
As for calling you a liar, you are stating that there is a huge demand for teachers around the 100 million+ mark annually, Which is about 4-5 times the average in Korea. Yeah... I think you're a rather obvious liar or you have never worked in Korea... which would also make you a liar... dang. You are making this too easy dude. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fallacy
Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Location: ex-ROK
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:13 pm Post subject: RE: University Requirements Going Up |
|
|
Right. Back to the topic of this thread. Given the general consensus regarding TEFL employment on the Job-related Discussion Forum of late, namely that:
1. job conditions are not getting better
2. salaries are not going higher
3. living expenses are going higher
4. job requirements are getting stricter
it thus follows that seeking escape from the ROK is rational. In light of the rapid decline in demographics in the ROK, the future employment outlook is bleak, so the time is right for getting ahead of the outbound flow of foreign bodies. I assure you, due to this chaotic market disruption, there will be a lengthening queue at the airport departures going forward from 2016. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JohnML wrote: |
| tophatcat wrote: |
| JohnML wrote: |
| tophatcat wrote: |
Dear JohnML
Not everyone is stuck at 24 million per year.
I know some teachers who make more than 35 million per year.
You don't know my salary. You are making a false claim by saying so. Therefor, no need to call me a liar.
"irregardless" LMAO |
I advise you read over posts a little more carefully before responding. At no point did I say nobody was earning over 35 at no point did I say everyone was stuck at 24 million. I just said that huge demand you claim isn't there at all your response actually verifies this - when you wrote "some teachers". I also not once claimed to know your salary, I just said a lot of people lie about it and I've caught them out on it. People don't get so offended as you without reason, so what's your reason?
However if you want to go there, I absolutely believe you are a liar from the way you act, what of it? The last response is just stereotypical of someone who has no ground basis for an argument too, whilst that might be the type of response that would work against one of your 8 year old students when they call you strange looking. It's not something that is gonna work on someone like me, especially since you weren't the person who even picked up on it... |
Now you are saying that there are teachers who are making more than 24 million and 35 million. Well, I'm glad that we got that mistake corrected. Or, was that just another typo you made?
I'm not offended, JohnML. I'm just going through and helping you clean the mistakes in your posts. Your posts just seem to bounce around all over the place with mistakes and typos.
Wow! Why would you outright call a person a liar when you have nothing to base it on?
Let's not get emotional, JohnML. Let's stick to fact based knowledge. No need for the childish name calling. Let's be adults here. |
"This is total nonsense and everyone knows it. There is absolutely not anything remotely resembling a high demand for English teachers on 100 mil+ salaries, this is "smh" material. There is a decent/large demand for English teachers on 24 million/year salaries. There is barely any demand for English teachers above 35 million/year. Are you actually aware you are completely misleading people with this? Same goes to many of these people who are quoting ridiculous salaries. To feed your ego, you are misleading other people. Often a double lie quoting salaries you have "heard" of but aren't earning anywhere near."
Please highlight in my response where I said no English teacher earns 35+ million. Please, I'll wait. Now it's a case of you know you are wrong but are digging yourself into a deeper hole. Also as far as I'm concerned your lame insults and backtracking to find off topic material to insult me with (picking up on another posters correction) would suggest to me you are the one getting emotional. I could call you out on quite a few things including your lack of reading skills? Honestly I couldn't care less though. I'll leave it up to other people to decide who they think is backing up their arguments.
As for calling you a liar, you are stating that there is a huge demand for teachers around the 100 million+ mark annually, Which is about 4-5 times the average in Korea. Yeah... I think you're a rather obvious liar or you have never worked in Korea... which would also make you a liar... dang. You are making this too easy dude. |
No, JohnML, that's not what I said. I didn't say there is a huge demand for teachers around the 100 million+ mark annually.
What I said was, there is a demand for teachers with dynamic skills and the ability to produce high English results. I never said huge, I simply said there is a demand. And there is a demand for teachers who manage to have their students achieve high test scores; such as achieving top SAT, TOEIC, and TOEFL scores. These teachers can bring in +100 million won per year.
No problem, glad to help you out there, JohnML. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fallacy
Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Location: ex-ROK
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:02 pm Post subject: RE: University Requirements Going Up |
|
|
| The peak has passed. 2011 was the peak year for university age students from the ROK studying abroad in higher education. Specifically, the 2008-2009 academic year was the peak for students from the ROK studying in the USA. Uncoincidentally, this corresponds with a peak in the number of applicants in the ROK sitting for the annual CSAT held in the Fall, and for a peak in the % of high school leavers entering higher education in the ROK. The total number of entering freshman has fallen every academic year since. 2010 was the peak for NET's hired by EPIC as well, and in line with this, the total number of E-2 visas active in the ROK has fallen year over year since 2011. The decline in just the 10 year period from 2013 to 2023 is calculated at a minimum of minus 40%. None of this should be a surprise. The number of babies born in the ROK peaked in 1992 at 739,000. Fast forward 18 years to 2010, and voila. The decline is steep, and fast, from there to the floor, and flat going forward. In 2005, only 438,000 babies were born in the ROK, and a similar number (435k) were born just last year in 2014. In conclusion, demographically speaking, the ROK is now the new Japan. Extrapolate from these figures for impacts on the local TEFL industry accordingly. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hubbahubba
Joined: 31 May 2008
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| My boss told me what you wrote 6 years ago. But, please, don't stop the moaners, it's highly entertaining. These idiots will continue to cry "it's not fair...why did it change...life sucks...the world is ending" all the while doing nothing to change their situation. I get a perverse satisfaction/enjoyment from watching it....good stuff. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Keeper
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:23 pm Post subject: Re: RE: University Requirements Going Up |
|
|
| Fallacy wrote: |
Right. Back to the topic of this thread. Given the general consensus regarding TEFL employment on the Job-related Discussion Forum of late, namely that:
1. job conditions are not getting better
2. salaries are not going higher
3. living expenses are going higher
4. job requirements are getting stricter
it thus follows that seeking escape from the ROK is rational. In light of the rapid decline in demographics in the ROK, the future employment outlook is bleak, so the time is right for getting ahead of the outbound flow of foreign bodies. I assure you, due to this chaotic market disruption, there will be a lengthening queue at the airport departures going forward from 2016. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! |
Fiscally, you pretty much got it all but missed the fluctuating exchange rate.
Jun. 29, 2014 - 1008 won per USD
Today - 1172 won per USD
We will never get the best exchange rate being offered so it's even worse than what is shown above. The banks all take their cut so getting it out of the country becomes a real headache.
As an American, the two nice things are no US taxes (most of us pay Korean taxes income and VAT) and schools likely pay the rent. The cons to these are no unemployment insurance/no safety net, and most of us don't pick where we live. If the school wants you to move in three days - you move. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fallacy
Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Location: ex-ROK
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:32 pm Post subject: RE: University Requirements Going Up |
|
|
| I saw no need to comment on the exchange rate, given how much that dead horse is flogged on this board. Instead, my commentary was focused on demographics, and more detail on that followed further onward. Nevertheless, FOREX insights are much appreciated. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fallacy
Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Location: ex-ROK
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:36 pm Post subject: RE: University Requirements Going Up |
|
|
| hubbahubba wrote: |
| My boss told me what you wrote 6 years ago. But, please, don't stop the moaners, it's highly entertaining. These idiots will continue to cry "it's not fair...why did it change...life sucks...the world is ending" all the while doing nothing to change their situation. I get a perverse satisfaction/enjoyment from watching it....good stuff. |
This! Well put. Indeed, the entertainment value of the staged, fictional drama aforeground is excellent already, but just gets better when viewed by the audience against this background of factual information. A round of applause for everyone! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| hubbahubba wrote: |
| My boss told me what you wrote 6 years ago. But, please, don't stop the moaners, it's highly entertaining. These idiots will continue to cry "it's not fair...why did it change...life sucks...the world is ending" all the while doing nothing to change their situation. I get a perverse satisfaction/enjoyment from watching it....good stuff. |
+1
Over the years, I've watched the same thing. Moaners.
I knew I might be here a long time. I have changed and adapted to what the market demands. Now I'm living a reasonably happy and financially comfortable life. Moaners don't like to hear this. But, there is a bright side for some of us.
I'm 'rollin'
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
If you can't understand Korean and most of the teachers you observe teach mostly in Korean how can you properly evaluate the lesson if you don't know what they are saying? Seems like a waste. I would think a bilingual person would be better suited for the job you do. |
It'd be pretty ironic if the MOE insisted on employing bilingual people for TEE training wouldn't it.
Also they don't actually use that much (if any) Korean when I observe them but freely admit when they finish the course they'll likely go back to the old and much easier methods. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tophatcat wrote: |
| hubbahubba wrote: |
| My boss told me what you wrote 6 years ago. But, please, don't stop the moaners, it's highly entertaining. These idiots will continue to cry "it's not fair...why did it change...life sucks...the world is ending" all the while doing nothing to change their situation. I get a perverse satisfaction/enjoyment from watching it....good stuff. |
+1
Over the years, I've watched the same thing. Moaners.
I knew I might be here a long time. I have changed and adapted to what the market demands. Now I'm living a reasonably happy and financially comfortable life. Moaners don't like to hear this. But, there is a bright side for some of us.
I'm 'rollin'
|
TEFL seems to attract a lot of coasters who want to keep doing the same cushy jobs in the same place year after year with less and less effort or self improvement. They'll be the ones doing most of the moaning. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fallacy
Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Location: ex-ROK
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:55 pm Post subject: RE: University Requirements Going Up |
|
|
In regards to why university requirements may be going up for faculty employment, but not for student enrollment, here are more declining demographic figures for the moaners/coasters to consider:
YR 2010 YR 2011 YR 2012 YR 2013 YR 2014 YR 2015 (annual CSAT)
712,227 693,634 668,527 650,747 640,619 631,184 (applicants)
668,991 648,946 620,723 606,813 594,617 585,332 (examinees) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| There is a demand for teachers paid around 5-10 mil per month. This is at Cram hagwons as the previous poster said. Now, this demand is strong but 90% of it is for Korean-Americans not native speakers. That is the first thing to remember. They usually want fluent Korean and they want you to have credentials that include high scores in said exams such as SAT, TOEIC, TOEFL or other. Korean students will likely choose the Korean-American over a foreigner because they don't wanna learn English it is merely test prep and they are there for tips and skills for the test only. Koreans matter of fact are really good at that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
