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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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 Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 2:14 am Post subject: |
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You want my personal experience you pay for it. Anyway whatever happened one can be sure that you will take the part of the university .
What kind of person does that sort of stuff.
Again not single word of condemnation of anything any university does
Shame , shame |
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tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| GENO123 wrote: |
| tophatcat wrote: |
| GENO123 wrote: |
How about the masters degree person? Which is far more relavent here.
I note your refusal to condemn universities for their policies regarding extra work. Or that you use the same misleading accounting pracitices when describing actually pay and other stuff that universities employ.
Also note the " she gets paid in won and buys stuff in won." double talk.
You are an apologist and an excuse maker.
Your version of the conditions is bascailly word for word what universities would answer. They are misleading and so is your information.
Key to improving the environment is to have access to accurate and honest information about the enviornment.
Better to be a "whiner and complainer" than an excuse maker and an apoloigst. I will accept your characterization of me if you accept my characterization of you. Deal?
Universities want to negate f visas and you are an apologist for all of it.
Shame on you |
I have a friend who is a high school teacher that only has a BA. His wife, Korean, has a part-time job making around 400,000 per month. They don't drive a Rolls Royce but they get by reasonably well. This is accurate and honest information.
This isn't 1961. Korea has a reasonably well developed modern economy. There are people in Korea that aren't Korean. Some of these people are teachers. Some of these people have families. Some of these people have university jobs. |
I wonder how they are going to pay for example their kid's college educaton . Unforseen medical expenses .
Accept your place . Ha ha That an answer. Again refuses to say anything against universities.
Shame |
They will pay like everyone else in Korea pays. People get sick. It happens all the time in England, Canada, the US, and Korea. There's nothing exceptional about the situation here. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| tophatcat wrote: |
| GENO123 wrote: |
| tophatcat wrote: |
| GENO123 wrote: |
How about the masters degree person? Which is far more relavent here.
I note your refusal to condemn universities for their policies regarding extra work. Or that you use the same misleading accounting pracitices when describing actually pay and other stuff that universities employ.
Also note the " she gets paid in won and buys stuff in won." double talk.
You are an apologist and an excuse maker.
Your version of the conditions is bascailly word for word what universities would answer. They are misleading and so is your information.
Key to improving the environment is to have access to accurate and honest information about the enviornment.
Better to be a "whiner and complainer" than an excuse maker and an apoloigst. I will accept your characterization of me if you accept my characterization of you. Deal?
Universities want to negate f visas and you are an apologist for all of it.
Shame on you |
I have a friend who is a high school teacher that only has a BA. His wife, Korean, has a part-time job making around 400,000 per month. They don't drive a Rolls Royce but they get by reasonably well. This is accurate and honest information.
This isn't 1961. Korea has a reasonably well developed modern economy. There are people in Korea that aren't Korean. Some of these people are teachers. Some of these people have families. Some of these people have university jobs. |
I wonder how they are going to pay for example their kid's college educaton . Unforseen medical expenses .
Accept your place . Ha ha That an answer. Again refuses to say anything against universities.
Shame |
They will pay like everyone else in Korea pays. People get sick. It happens all the time in England, Canada, the US, and Korea. There's nothing exceptional about the situation here. |
Accept your place and shut up. Ah ha that is an answer.
But there is an exceptional part of the situation. "A is not allowed to work for third parties with out the express permission of B. " Or something of the sort.
Note again: failure to say anything against anything universities do. Byf someone who gives the job description exactly like universities do.
Last edited by GENO123 on Sat Dec 26, 2015 2:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 2:21 am Post subject: |
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| GENO123 wrote: |
You want my personal experience you pay for it. Anyway whatever happened one can be sure that you will take the part of the university .
What kind of person does that sort of stuff.
Again not single word of condemnation of anything any university does
Shame , shame |
Well GENO, some people are happy with their university jobs, and life in Korea. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| tophatcat wrote: |
| GENO123 wrote: |
You want my personal experience you pay for it. Anyway whatever happened one can be sure that you will take the part of the university .
What kind of person does that sort of stuff.
Again not single word of condemnation of anything any university does
Shame , shame |
Well GENO, some people are happy with their university jobs, and life in Korea. |
They probably either have minimal expenses or find ways to be sucessful in spite of the system. |
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tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 3:49 am Post subject: |
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| GENO123 wrote: |
| tophatcat wrote: |
| GENO123 wrote: |
You want my personal experience you pay for it. Anyway whatever happened one can be sure that you will take the part of the university .
What kind of person does that sort of stuff.
Again not single word of condemnation of anything any university does
Shame , shame |
Well GENO, some people are happy with their university jobs, and life in Korea. |
They probably either have minimal expenses or find ways to be sucessful in spite of the system. |
It's called being smart, GENO. It's called being smart. It's the decisions we make in life. It's not the system or the man. The first step to recovery and happiness is looking in the mirror and admitting one's own faults. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 4:37 am Post subject: |
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There is a differece between being smart and misleading people Hopefully there are some people who get this.
Blood money is not my cup of tea. Beating the system doesnt mean the system is okay. Still think it is okay for universities to negate f visas.
Tisk tisk |
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tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:00 am Post subject: |
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| GENO123 wrote: |
There is a differece between being smart and misleading people Hopefully there are some people who get this.
Blood money is not my cup of tea. Beating the system doesnt mean the system is okay. Still think it is okay for universities to negate f visas.
Tisk tisk |
My friend, with the Phd, his wife is Korean and he is on the f visa. As far as I know, it hasn't been a problem for him.
What does blood money have to do with working at a university in Korea?
The universities have systems put into place. Work within the system. Prove your worthiness. You don't have to beat the system. Provide what is wanted and needed. Be a team player to some extent. There are opportunities in the ESL field in Korean universities and the Korean ESL market. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:12 am Post subject: |
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I know a guy who got a md in the US and he is now an md in korea. I dont know what the use talking about a guy with a phd has to do with esl korea. My description of what goes on at big famous schools is accurate. My description of the pay and working conditions in also true. The responsibility is with the universites not with the teachers who talk about them.
Universites have systems to put teachers in their place. Post corrected |
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tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| GENO123 wrote: |
I know a guy who got a md in the US and he is now an md in korea. I dont know what the use talking about a guy with a phd has to do with esl korea. My description of what goes on at big famous schools is accurate. My description of the pay and working conditions in also true. The responsibility is with the universites not with the teachers who talk about them.
Universites have systems to put teachers in their place. Post corrected |
The guy with the Phd is teaching ESL in a university in Korea. That's what it has to do with esl in Korea. Why limit esl in Korea to some guy with a BA that's 179cm tall, with blonde hair and brown eyes, who came from a small town in Kansas.
I don't doubt that some people have bad experiences working at universities in Korea. Some people may be on 2.1 salaries. However, some people have 3-4 million won salaries and more, have a lot of vacation time with little work involved outside of the classroom. Some people are actually happy with their university jobs. This is life. This isn't limited to Korean universities.
Yep. Some people need putting in their place. Some people need to be canned from the job. If you aren't university material, you need to find a hagwon job that pays 2.1 for 30 hours a week and 5 days vacation a year. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| tophatcat wrote: |
| GENO123 wrote: |
I know a guy who got a md in the US and he is now an md in korea. I dont know what the use talking about a guy with a phd has to do with esl korea. My description of what goes on at big famous schools is accurate. My description of the pay and working conditions in also true. The responsibility is with the universites not with the teachers who talk about them.
Universites have systems to put teachers in their place. Post corrected |
The guy with the Phd is teaching ESL in a university in Korea. That's what it has to do with esl in Korea. Why limit esl in Korea to some guy with a BA that's 179cm tall, with blonde hair and brown eyes, who came from a small town in Kansas.
I don't doubt that some people have bad experiences working at universities in Korea. Some people may be on 2.1 salaries. However, some people have 3-4 million won salaries and more, have a lot of vacation time with little work involved outside of the classroom. Some people are actually happy with their university jobs. This is life. This isn't limited to Korean universities.
Yep. Some people need putting in their place. Some people need to be canned from the job. If you aren't university material, you need to find a hagwon job that pays 2.1 for 30 hours a week and 5 days vacation a year. |
PHDs are in a different world . They are not really relevant to the discussion.
| Quote: |
| 3-4 million won salaries and more, have a lot of vacation time with little work involved outside of the classroom. |
They don't correct papers or correct tests? Stop inflating what they get , stop inflating their actually vacation time. Stop understating the work involved.
more often than not Esl Korea is a sham and universities are an evil trick.
Contact hours / contract hours ?
Excellent post below:
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| obviously there's a huge amount of difference in the TYPE of grading one is responsible for and time spent outside of class...for example at Sunggyunwan where they make you teach entire semester of writing classes and then another semester of "presentation" classes (I'm pretty sure SNU is similar)...there would obviously be significantly more grading time involved (essays) then just teaching some conversation 101 class with interchange or whatever..as someone who claims to have taught esl before that should have been blatantly obvious..just sayin'! |
| Quote: |
Yep. Some people need putting in their place |
When in doubt blame the teachers . The university is always right. Uh no.
Universities are responsible for the conditions they offer and their behavior toward employees. It is not wrong to throw light on it.
Simple question again : can you support a family or pay back a loan on a korean university salary at the MA level especially with all the deductions ?
| Quote: |
| However, some people have 3-4 million won salaries and more, |
so what? Do you doubt that more than a few of them on 3- 4 million (isn't really much money at all really ) haven't have bad experiences at universities. Why limit it to people at 2.1?
None of this excuses universities for trying to negate F visas.
Last edited by GENO123 on Sat Dec 26, 2015 6:49 am; edited 2 times in total |
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goat
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| I worked at a university in 2012. It was great. The hours were good and I had a lot of time off. The staff and professors treated me well. I was offered a contract for a second year but I declined because of the travel time. The university was a 40 minute switch over bus ride from my home. I wanted to stay in my neighborhood for personal reasons. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| how much? Did you get severance? |
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goat
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| GENO123 wrote: |
| how much? Did you get severance? |
2,600,000 plus 400,000 for housing. I already had my own housing. I was offered 2,700,000 for a second contract. This was at a smaller university. The best thing was having some time to travel abroad.
No severance. |
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JohnML
Joined: 05 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 6:56 am Post subject: |
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Too much progression in topic CBA going back and reading through it all...
| tophatcat wrote: |
I think there are some higher starting salaries than what are advertised on some of these job ads. Of course I'm sure there are some uni jobs that start at 2.0 for 18 hours.
I have 3 friends who work at universities. Two have Masters, one has a Doctorate.
Friend (1)
Masters
3.3 + housing
12 class schedule
20 weeks vacation
Friend (2)
Masters
Salary 3.1 + housing
12 class schedule
20 weeks vacation
Friend (3)
Doctorate
Salary unknown
9 class schedule
+ 20 weeks vacation
Friends (1) and (2) schedule a couple of hours each week in their offices for students who want to visit. They also use this time for grading.
Friends (1), (2), and (3) spend a few days each year preparing for classes and getting grades out. |
First and foremost lets stop presenting uncitable information, I can do that too.
Friend (1)
MA TESOL
2.0 + housing
16 teaching hours/week
4 week vacaction.
Friend (2)
BA + 2 years teaching experience
2.1 + housing
40 (!!!) teaching hours/week
2 week vacation
See? I can go on but these people obviously aren't indicative of the market. It's slightly higher. The average MA at university level with 2+ years experience at teaching at that level is on about 2.3+ The point being instead of using "friends", lets start using citable sources. The only people I know of making $50,000 in Korea are those with tenured positions who make around 50 million a year. To get that position they have experience working a PhD back home, then a teaching assistant back home, then a professor position back home. They spent about a decade+ on a horrible salary/PhD grant to get into said position.
The average MA in TESOL is somewhere mid 2 mil. The point is dude if you look at it as a global market education is always the bottom of the tables for the expat market in salaries, it's a terrible industry to be making money and nobody doubts it. Even including private lessons at a rate of 30,000. It's standard to be making an hourly private rate of 100,000+ in many other sectors.
| tophatcat wrote: |
| Come on GENO123, tell us, what happened with you and the university? Did you get canned? |
Why do you assume he got canned because he's giving the truth on the matter? He doesn't at all come across as bitter to me just honest. I had a very good position by ESL standards and left it (mid contract) because I was earning 4-5 times more in my professional field. There advanatages to ESL (massive holiday, low entry requirements)... etc... money is not one of those at all. It's a really poorly compensated field, even if people are earning 4 million (and verrrrry few do). That's still not a lot of money.
I know a 25 year old Korean doctor now making twice that. Same applies to China, I know software developers there making 4 times ESL salaries... I know recruiters making way more than ESL teachers...
The thing is when I research this, my experience is matching up with the research. It's one thing to say my experience could be wrong (and it could) but my experience + TEFL websites + job ads + my friends + the schools I've asked? All this being wrong? Don't buy it, I know better than to buy it. Unfortunately a lot of people don't.
| GENO123 wrote: |
There is a differece between being smart and misleading people Hopefully there are some people who get this.
Blood money is not my cup of tea. Beating the system doesnt mean the system is okay. Still think it is okay for universities to negate f visas.
Tisk tisk |
You are one of the only people on this website who actually back up your claims with evidence, nobody else is really worth debating against. I seem to agree with most of what you post though which makes it boring!
| goat wrote: |
| GENO123 wrote: |
| how much? Did you get severance? |
2,600,000 plus 400,000 for housing. I already had my own housing. I was offered 2,700,000 for a second contract. This was at a smaller university. The best thing was having some time to travel abroad.
No severance. |
This is a pretty good contract by today's standards, I'd say 2.3 + housing is more the norm but the last reason you quoted is the single best reason about the profession. There are better/much more lucrative ways to get into the country elsewhere but often you only get a months worth+ of annual leave. |
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