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tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
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 Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| GENO123 wrote: |
| SeoulNate wrote: |
Geno getting a bit desperate in this thread.
Just because your university experience was bad / negative doesn't mean everyone has it the same way |
Actually I think that it good that someone is trying to shine alot about what really goes on at universities.
Most of them are -bad and the number is going up all the time. . And if they aren't then they will go the way of the others. Remember Hong Ik . How about Seoul National?
More to the point: One can't support a family or pay back a loan on 3.5 before any and all deductions ( 2. . That is why I say that universities are an evil trick. Lets stop pretending that it is good money. That it is a good salary in anyway is just propaganda. Actually a school can pay whatever they choose to but if they star freezing pay and increasing work then they ought not punish teachers for doing extra work. Especially when it is legal.
Do you think it is okay that Universities try to negate F Visas?
I don't believe in "know your place".
Universities are responsible for the conditions they offer. Unfortunately you have a group of people who are out to stop this.
In any case lets not describe and inflate the salary in US dollars and then say that you can't use US dollars to describe the pay.
As I said Universities are responsible for the conditions they offer. Why give them credit for paying more than they actually do. |
Lots of families in Korea are living on 3.5 a month. I know Korean families that live on this.
Stop friviously spending you money on skateboards and hanging out in the park with your buddies. Grow up, bro  |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| tophatcat wrote: |
| GENO123 wrote: |
| SeoulNate wrote: |
Geno getting a bit desperate in this thread.
Just because your university experience was bad / negative doesn't mean everyone has it the same way |
I don't think I am desperate I think I want to shine a on light on what goes on at big famous Korean universities. . At any rate all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to be silent.
most of them are -bad and the number is going up all the time. . And if they aren't then they will go the way of the others. Remember Hong Ik . I would like to know your opinion of what they are doing.
One can't support a family or pay back a loan on 3.5 before any and all deductions ( 2. . That is why I say that universities are an evil trick. Lets stop pretending that it is good money. That it is a good salary in anyway is just propaganda.
Actually a school can pay whatever they choose to but if they star freezing pay and increasing work then they ought not punish teachers for doing extra work. Especially when it is legal. The government created F-Visas for a reason.
Universities are responsible for the conditions they offer. Unfortunately you have a group of people who are out to stop this.
I would like a response Thank you in advance. |
If the university salary doesn't cover your student loans, credit card debts, spouse and children, and spending habits, move along. Find a higher paying job. Go back home and get on the dole. It's not the universities responsibility to cover the bad decisions and lack of responsibility you made in life. |
more of the university is always right . stuff that it is okay that universities try to negate F- Visas.
I will try to stop hanging out at the park but that doesn't change the fact that Universities don't pay severance, that they try to negate F visas or that 3.5 (2.8 ) is not a good salary in Korea , and that universities are responsible for the conditions they offer.
Oh that you are an apologist for it all.
Last edited by GENO123 on Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:55 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| tophatcat wrote: |
| GENO123 wrote: |
| SeoulNate wrote: |
Geno getting a bit desperate in this thread.
Just because your university experience was bad / negative doesn't mean everyone has it the same way |
Actually I think that it good that someone is trying to shine alot about what really goes on at universities.
Most of them are -bad and the number is going up all the time. . And if they aren't then they will go the way of the others. Remember Hong Ik . How about Seoul National?
More to the point: One can't support a family or pay back a loan on 3.5 before any and all deductions ( 2. . That is why I say that universities are an evil trick. Lets stop pretending that it is good money. That it is a good salary in anyway is just propaganda. Actually a school can pay whatever they choose to but if they star freezing pay and increasing work then they ought not punish teachers for doing extra work. Especially when it is legal.
Do you think it is okay that Universities try to negate F Visas?
I don't believe in "know your place".
Universities are responsible for the conditions they offer. Unfortunately you have a group of people who are out to stop this.
In any case lets not describe and inflate the salary in US dollars and then say that you can't use US dollars to describe the pay.
As I said Universities are responsible for the conditions they offer. Why give them credit for paying more than they actually do. |
Lots of families in Korea are living on 3.5 a month. I know Korean families that live on this.
Stop friviously spending you money on skateboards and hanging out in the park with your buddies. Grow up, bro |
More of "accept your place" . what an apologist.
Anyway since you are such a know it all you might want to answer the following . I asked before but for some reason you ducked it
Whatever ,
At any rate some people will side w/ the university no matter what..
More importantly Universities try to negate f- 5 visas . and some people support them in doing that.
The title of this thread is university jobs race to the bottom. Note i did not start it.
How much is 2.7 ~ 2.8 take home in US dollars?
Can someone support a family / pay back a loan on a university salary?
You could do extra work but it is not allowed.
Universities don't pay severance. Do they ?
"contact hours" means nothing whatsoever. Only total total work and trouble compared to total pay.
Sad to say there are some who would wish to stop such a discussion.
Guide to conditions at big famous schools below:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=233809&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
Last edited by GENO123 on Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| tophatcat wrote: |
| GENO123 wrote: |
| SeoulNate wrote: |
Geno getting a bit desperate in this thread.
Just because your university experience was bad / negative doesn't mean everyone has it the same way |
Actually I think that it good that someone is trying to shine alot about what really goes on at universities.
Most of them are -bad and the number is going up all the time. . And if they aren't then they will go the way of the others. Remember Hong Ik . How about Seoul National?
More to the point: One can't support a family or pay back a loan on 3.5 before any and all deductions ( 2. . That is why I say that universities are an evil trick. Lets stop pretending that it is good money. That it is a good salary in anyway is just propaganda. Actually a school can pay whatever they choose to but if they star freezing pay and increasing work then they ought not punish teachers for doing extra work. Especially when it is legal.
Do you think it is okay that Universities try to negate F Visas?
I don't believe in "know your place".
Universities are responsible for the conditions they offer. Unfortunately you have a group of people who are out to stop this.
In any case lets not describe and inflate the salary in US dollars and then say that you can't use US dollars to describe the pay.
As I said Universities are responsible for the conditions they offer. Why give them credit for paying more than they actually do. |
Lots of families in Korea are living on 3.5 a month. I know Korean families that live on this.
Stop friviously spending you money on skateboards and hanging out in the park with your buddies. Grow up, bro |
They have other ways to get money and their employer can't interfere with them. Plus they have job security and other benefits that esl instructors don't have. You Martin Shkreli wannabe.
As I said most teachers who are happy either have minimal expenses or find ways to get around the system.
Doesn't mean the system is good or that one ought not try to shine a light on what really goes on at universities.
How much is 2.7 ~ 2.8m in US dollars anyway?
Oh I know:
"she gets paid in won and she buys stuff in won"
Ok answer the question. |
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tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Little ENOG
Once upon a time there lived a little spoiled boy whose name was ENOG. When ENOG went to the supermarket with his mom, he always created a disturbing scene. ENOG would scream and hold his breath and kick his feet. He would run up and down the aisles pulling toys off the shelves and opening snacks. ENOG would stop in front of the candy section, screaming and crying, "buy ENOG candy, buy ENOG candy." Of course, his mom would drop a couple of bars of candy into the shopping cart, along with new sneakers for ENOG, and a skateboard and a pair of gloves he had thrown a tantraum for.
Now all the villagers recognized little ENOG. They new he was a spoiled child. He had a self centered attitude. He was always scowling and crying and throwing a fit to get what he wanted, never aware of others' needs that were around him. The last mention of little ENOG, he was walking out of a super market with candy bar chocolate on his face and a soiled and stained dripping diaper.
Word has it that little ENOG is still around somewhere in the village. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder how that applies to conditions at universities. Why don't you explain how it does. Enogs mom was good to him . Universities aren't good to teachers in fact Esl is highly profitable to Korean universities. I think you just object to such discussion.
Universities are welcome to pay what they choose , but why do they try to negate F visas? It is not their money. it is similar to what pimps do to prostitutes.
Ok fine - Here are the facts : universities don't pay severance, that they try to negate F visas or that 3.5 (2.8 ) is not a good salary in Korea , and that universities are responsible for the conditions they offer.
Oh that you are an apologist for it all.
I would rather be Enog (though I think that there are differences.) than an a apologist.
Note that Top Hate Cat has no problem with universities trying to negate F Visas. Any objections to this assertion ?
Now how much is 2.7M 2.8 in US dollars? Which is the take home pay on 3.5.
Personally I think you just want to stop discussion about what really goes on at big famous schools.
Really THC you are missing the point. I don't care about what you say about me or call me (your friendship and approval would not even get someone bus fare) - just as long as I get to show what goes on at big famous schools.
If my numbers are off you are welcome to challenge them.
Failure to answer = unwillingness to answer. I don't duck questions . Why do you? |
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tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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Tis the Season to be Jolly
Happy holidays, everyone. Love and cheer to all. Enjoy the beautiful weather and sunshine. To the ones enjoying their winter gifts, peace and good will to all men, women, and children. To the ones with long vacations, be careful and enjoy your travels.
Sincere warmth and kindness,
tophatcat |
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JohnML
Joined: 05 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| SeoulNate wrote: |
Geno getting a bit desperate in this thread.
Just because your university experience was bad / negative doesn't mean everyone has it the same way |
I had a largely positive experience but still agree with GENO on most points. I don't think it has anything to do with positive/negative experience. I love the field, even thinking about getting back into it in temporary phases but I'm not going to bury my head in the sand and pretend it's perfect.
ESL teachers aren't seen as/or treated like professionals. It's evident if you work in multiple sectors, also the salary is dire and is getting worse every day. Love the job but it doesn't pay. Also another huge negative that not many people want to mention is that the average ESL teacher salary in the states is sub $40,000 a year. So if you go back that's what you're returning to.
I'd say in my experience is that there are a lot of people who love it and a lot who hate it (at all levels). Generally the people who like it do so for the lifestyle and are not money motivated. Money motivated people would know that the market is heavily saturated and it's a field in which requirements are going up and pay is going down. I don't know why the argument has shifted to career happiness. I know people in Thailand who work for $600 a month (degree holders) who are happy.
This is much harder to quantify. One of the reasons the pay keeps going down is in fact some people just love the job/travelling/free time so much so they are willing to get paid less. I thought this thread was more about how job offers are going down and requirements are beefing up rather than who enjoys their work. I loved the job itself personally, except the very obvious "inferior professional" statement ingrained into it and it's definitely there.
GENO has a perfectly valid point on the question ducking though. For every question I answer, I usually ask a question. My response is always more questions which I have to answer rather than actual responses to my own. Either that or off topic insults. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| tophatcat wrote: |
Tis the Season to be Jolly
Happy holidays, everyone. Love and cheer to all. Enjoy the beautiful weather and sunshine. To the ones enjoying their winter gifts, peace and good will to all men, women, and children. To the ones with long vacations, be careful and enjoy your travels.
Sincere warmth and kindness,
tophatcat |
Why thank you Top Hat merry Xmas , and happy holidays to you too.
Guide to conditions at big famous schools below:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=233809&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15 |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnML wrote: |
| SeoulNate wrote: |
Geno getting a bit desperate in this thread.
Just because your university experience was bad / negative doesn't mean everyone has it the same way |
I had a largely positive experience but still agree with GENO on most points. I don't think it has anything to do with positive/negative experience. I love the field, even thinking about getting back into it in temporary phases but I'm not going to bury my head in the sand and pretend it's perfect.
ESL teachers aren't seen as/or treated like professionals. It's evident if you work in multiple sectors, also the salary is dire and is getting worse every day. Love the job but it doesn't pay. Also another huge negative that not many people want to mention is that the average ESL teacher salary in the states is sub $40,000 a year. So if you go back that's what you're returning to.
I'd say in my experience is that there are a lot of people who love it and a lot who hate it (at all levels). Generally the people who like it do so for the lifestyle and are not money motivated. Money motivated people would know that the market is heavily saturated and it's a field in which requirements are going up and pay is going down. I don't know why the argument has shifted to career happiness. I know people in Thailand who work for $600 a month (degree holders) who are happy.
This is much harder to quantify. One of the reasons the pay keeps going down is in fact some people just love the job/travelling/free time so much so they are willing to get paid less. I thought this thread was more about how job offers are going down and requirements are beefing up rather than who enjoys their work. I loved the job itself personally, except the very obvious "inferior professional" statement ingrained into it and it's definitely there.
GENO has a perfectly valid point on the question ducking though. For every question I answer, I usually ask a question. My response is always more questions which I have to answer rather than actual responses to my own. Either that or off topic insults. |
Nowadays teachers do far more work than just their contract/ contact hours.
This is why I have said several times that what is known as "contact hours" is indicative of nothing |
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goat
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| GENO123 wrote: |
| JohnML wrote: |
| SeoulNate wrote: |
Geno getting a bit desperate in this thread.
Just because your university experience was bad / negative doesn't mean everyone has it the same way |
I had a largely positive experience but still agree with GENO on most points. I don't think it has anything to do with positive/negative experience. I love the field, even thinking about getting back into it in temporary phases but I'm not going to bury my head in the sand and pretend it's perfect.
ESL teachers aren't seen as/or treated like professionals. It's evident if you work in multiple sectors, also the salary is dire and is getting worse every day. Love the job but it doesn't pay. Also another huge negative that not many people want to mention is that the average ESL teacher salary in the states is sub $40,000 a year. So if you go back that's what you're returning to.
I'd say in my experience is that there are a lot of people who love it and a lot who hate it (at all levels). Generally the people who like it do so for the lifestyle and are not money motivated. Money motivated people would know that the market is heavily saturated and it's a field in which requirements are going up and pay is going down. I don't know why the argument has shifted to career happiness. I know people in Thailand who work for $600 a month (degree holders) who are happy.
This is much harder to quantify. One of the reasons the pay keeps going down is in fact some people just love the job/travelling/free time so much so they are willing to get paid less. I thought this thread was more about how job offers are going down and requirements are beefing up rather than who enjoys their work. I loved the job itself personally, except the very obvious "inferior professional" statement ingrained into it and it's definitely there.
GENO has a perfectly valid point on the question ducking though. For every question I answer, I usually ask a question. My response is always more questions which I have to answer rather than actual responses to my own. Either that or off topic insults. |
Nowadays teachers do far more work than just their contract/ contact hours.
This is why I have said several times that what is known as "contact hours" is indicative of nothing |
Teaching as always involved more work than contact hours. Welcome to the life of being a teacher. Nothing new here. Move along folks, nothing new to see here. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| goat wrote: |
| GENO123 wrote: |
| JohnML wrote: |
| SeoulNate wrote: |
Geno getting a bit desperate in this thread.
Just because your university experience was bad / negative doesn't mean everyone has it the same way |
I had a largely positive experience but still agree with GENO on most points. I don't think it has anything to do with positive/negative experience. I love the field, even thinking about getting back into it in temporary phases but I'm not going to bury my head in the sand and pretend it's perfect.
ESL teachers aren't seen as/or treated like professionals. It's evident if you work in multiple sectors, also the salary is dire and is getting worse every day. Love the job but it doesn't pay. Also another huge negative that not many people want to mention is that the average ESL teacher salary in the states is sub $40,000 a year. So if you go back that's what you're returning to.
I'd say in my experience is that there are a lot of people who love it and a lot who hate it (at all levels). Generally the people who like it do so for the lifestyle and are not money motivated. Money motivated people would know that the market is heavily saturated and it's a field in which requirements are going up and pay is going down. I don't know why the argument has shifted to career happiness. I know people in Thailand who work for $600 a month (degree holders) who are happy.
This is much harder to quantify. One of the reasons the pay keeps going down is in fact some people just love the job/travelling/free time so much so they are willing to get paid less. I thought this thread was more about how job offers are going down and requirements are beefing up rather than who enjoys their work. I loved the job itself personally, except the very obvious "inferior professional" statement ingrained into it and it's definitely there.
GENO has a perfectly valid point on the question ducking though. For every question I answer, I usually ask a question. My response is always more questions which I have to answer rather than actual responses to my own. Either that or off topic insults. |
Nowadays teachers do far more work than just their contract/ contact hours.
This is why I have said several times that what is known as "contact hours" is indicative of nothing |
Teaching as always involved more work than contact hours. Welcome to the life of being a teacher. Nothing new here. Move along folks, nothing new to see here. |
By the way how does one earn enough money during the vacation time so they can save their entire salary. That is quite a trick.
Anyway you are missing the point one school can pay more than another but the extra work which is required might not be even close to worth the difference in pay.
Contact hours doesn't really tell one about the conditions of the job. I think teachers get too hung up in pay. Whuch plays into the hands on certain universities
Any problem with such an explanation? |
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jlb
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 1:48 am Post subject: |
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Most overtime is not paid a such a rate and if there is substantial paper work or administrative work with it then it is even less lucrative. Perhaps far less so. You really need to have a discussion about paper work grading and administrative work and how it affects the quality of a given position. Work is work in or out of class.
Your blog completely ignores the dark side of university jobs. And since the major proportion of university jobs are no good for one reason or for several reasons . Your blog is just off target |
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jlb
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
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