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SeoulNate
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Location: Hyehwa
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 Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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The one assertion that GENO keeps trying to make that I honestly don't understand is the F visa negation.
How are universities trying to negate an F visa?
Every job on the planet that asks you to sign a contract will have a clause that states if you are found to be working for competitors, you will be terminated.
Universities could give two shits if you want to open a study room at your house or a bar down the street. However, if you are teaching classes at other schools you are hurting their bottom line.
Seems like a complete non-issue to me. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| SeoulNate wrote: |
The one assertion that GENO keeps trying to make that I honestly don't understand is the F visa negation.
How are universities trying to negate an F visa?
Every job on the planet that asks you to sign a contract will have a clause that states if you are found to be working for competitors, you will be terminated.
Universities could give two s<< if you want to open a study room at your house or a bar down the street. However, if you are teaching classes at other schools you are hurting their bottom line.
Seems like a complete non-issue to me. |
Teaching extra classes is not working for competitors and doesn't hurt their bottom line (see different students) . I don't understand why you say so since the students are different.
Universities try to negate F- Visas because they are sanctimonious as hell and they think they own you. They are just full of themselves.
And it is an issue. In fact it is a major issue since the basic salary at a Korean university after all deductions is low and one can not support a family or pay back loans on such a salary.
Universities don’t pay severance or housing so it is fair to deduct that from what they claim to pay . They also don’t pay air fare so one might consider deducting that as well. What is left is not much better than Walmart money Or a Korean taxi driver salary. Nice salary indeed.
If a hogwon that paid 2.3 claimed they paid 3.0 because they paid housing severance and airfare no one would accept it , why allow Korean universities to get away with it. Why ought anyone just accept university account without a second thought.
Nice salary = University propaganda
Lets say for example someone makes 3.5 ( though most jobs pay about 2.6-3.0M) while using the same system that hogwons are judged on.
Lets deduct
housing 300
Severance 200
Airfare 200
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WOW 2.8 BEFORE taxes . YOU CAN LIVE REALLY WELL, PAY BACK LOANS AND SUPPORT A FAMILY REALLY WELL ON THAT .
Anyway do teachers allow teachers with F visas to do extra work?
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2627056&highlight=#2627056 |
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SeoulNate
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Location: Hyehwa
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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The short and sweet of it is:
If you want a good job, look for one. They do exist. If you want to do nothing but bitch about your current one, cool, just stop telling everyone else how much their job sucks. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| SeoulNate wrote: |
The short and sweet of it is:
If you want a good job, look for one. They do exist. If you want to do nothing but bitch about your current one, cool, just stop telling everyone else how much their job sucks. |
Just shining a light about what typically goes on at the big famous schools.
Majority are no good , and many of the people who are okay with theirs have minimal expenses. Some of the others are suk ups who report on teachers to improve their standing in their school.
Anyway
40-42 million a year for two 16 week semesters, . They also offer overtime at 40K/hr. Not terrible. They hire often and prune the dead wood,...
Hire often (and fire often ) and and prune the dead wood for 41 - 44 million before any and all deductions doesn't sound like a particularly good job. What is so good about it? Remember sky is the limit for extra unpaid work . SKY IS THE LIMIT.
Remember if a hogwon that paid 2.3 claimed that they pay 3.0 because they pay housing airfare and severance they would get flamed for it
Please don't exaggerate university pay Seoul Nate.
Generally speaking there are three types of situations if you work for a Korean university
A ) A name university where you get pushed around and your life is miserable. Feeling safe at your "name" university?. Well, just wait a while.
OR
B ) A university where you get paid next to nothing
OR
C ) Both A & B
You can avoid this IF you have a PHD and it is also true that working in Korea is better than Wall Mart but for those just getting out of college, but basically the in between between those two extremes in Korea is rapidly disappearing if it isn't already gone.
Yes you can pretty much write off teaching in Korea if you need a salary any greater that what is needed to support a single person unless one has a PHD.
excellent post on the subject of university pay:
| Quote: |
If uni jobs paid a real salary (ie 65+million won a year) then I'd agree that teaching at a uni would be a great job.
However in reality this isn't the case. I don't care how much vacation you get. The pay downright sucks.
Oh you can do camps and corporates because your hours are low and you have vacation? Well then yes you'll make a decent salary. But then you're working 40 hours like the rest of us and having the stress of commuting between different jobs, dealing with all the issues one job would give x2 x3.
Show me a uni job that has 12 contact hours a week, 20 weeks vacation and pays 5-6 million Won a month. No publication pressure or BS committee work either. You know one of those dream "I work an 18 hour week MAX and take off to Thailand for 3 months" type jobs that esl uni teachers like to brag about.
You either get paid decently but have to work for it and have the pieces of paper or BS "qualifications" some on here like to bang on about, OR you have a uni job that requires very little BUT PAYS VERY LITTLE. |
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2930720&highlight=#2930720
HERE IS THE BIG PICTURE :
"At the top 40-50 universities" You can more or less sum it up this way : (e.g., actual working hours always being longer, sudden firings being common, salaries being low, no respect given to foreign faculty, etc. "
UNIVERSITY CONDITIONS WITHOUT THE SMOKE AND MIRRORS
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=233809&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
THREAD ABOUT FIRINGS:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2957277&highlight=#2957277 |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| SeoulNate wrote: |
Pretty much this. This is the standard pay for any university worth working at. Yes they have yearly raises, yes they pay into pension, yes they get 20~ish weeks vacation a year, yes they have over time opportunities during the semester and during breaks.
Sure, you have to deduct taxes, but you have to do that for every job. |
But is it such a cush job after all ?
SeoulNate wrote:
| Quote: |
| For the rest of the people, you are right. The pay is pretty decent at my place, but we do work for it. Lots of prep work/office hours involved. |
But can one really support a family or pay back loans on 3.5 (2.7)?
How much is 3.5 /2/8 in US dollars anyway? |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="tophatcat"][quote="GENO123"]
| SeoulNate wrote: |
Geno getting a bit desperate in this thread.
Lots of families in Korea are living on 3.5 a month. I know Korean families that live on this.
Stop friviously spending you money on skateboards and hanging out in the park with your buddies. Grow up, bro  |
About that 3.5 million .
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Korea has one of the highest household debt levels in the world compared with incomes, even surpassing the U.S. before its housing crisis. But like many countries that have loaded up on debt, growth is slowing, raising fears that excess borrowing could be a drag in the years ahead. |
http://www.wsj.com/articles/south-koreas-are-on-a-debt-binge-1424920718 |
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SeoulNate
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Location: Hyehwa
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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Nice misquote there.
Anyway, I'm done here. I'm happy with life as it currently standards. 55kk a year teaching one, one month summer or winter program with another 3 months off a year, 12-14 hour weeks with another 10-12 office / prep hours per week. No additional work other than graduation ceremonies and recommendation letters for students.
You paint a grim picture, but not everyone has it that bad. I'll say it again, the good jobs do exist. |
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jlb
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| I've worked in unis for the past 9 nine years and will just say this: I get paid a ridiculously high amount of money for the work I actually do. Cha-ching. Thank you Korea! |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| jlb wrote: |
| I've worked in unis for the past 9 nine years and will just say this: I get paid a ridiculously high amount of money for the work I actually do. Cha-ching. Thank you Korea! |
and you write books pumping esl korea..
Conflict of interest!
Hrere is some advice w / o any malace on my part . your blog and books dont have any crediability until you deal with the question of the big famous schools once and for all. Up till now you have glanced over and avoided the topic. Just cause you avpid a topic dors mean it is not out there.
Last edited by GENO123 on Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:22 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| SeoulNate wrote: |
Nice misquote there.
Anyway, I'm done here. I'm happy with life as it currently standards. 55kk a year teaching one, one month summer or winter program with another 3 months off a year, 12-14 hour weeks with another 10-12 office / prep hours per week. No additional work other than graduation ceremonies and recommendation letters for students.
You paint a grim picture, but not everyone has it that bad. I'll say it again, the good jobs do exist. |
u qote salaries in U S dollars then when the amount in won does nt match the dollar figure you quoted you day we cant use the number in dollars. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| SeoulNate wrote: |
Nice misquote there.
Anyway, I'm done here. I'm happy with life as it currently standards. 55kk a year teaching one, one month summer or winter program with another 3 months off a year, 12-14 hour weeks with another 10-12 office / prep hours per week. No additional work other than graduation ceremonies and recommendation letters for students.
You paint a grim picture, but not everyone has it that bad. I'll say it again, the good jobs do exist. |
what do you think of seoul national or sung guen gwan or saw gong or Hong Ik.? |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| GENO123 wrote: |
I think this is more specific than your examples:
Hong IK
| Quote: |
| don't forget our friends at Hongik Univ who are docking teachers 80k/class hour/week when you lose classes to drop you below 15 hours/week. Of course you make it up the following semester as OT but your are only paid 28k/hour for that and can only make up 6 hours/semester |
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| Quote: |
My uni job used to be one of the best around until they upped the hours to 15 and changed the contract so we lose 720,000W a month if a class gets cancelled (which happens to about 25% of teachers every semester). I think you know which uni I'm talking about.
I got my MA TESOL in the UK back in 2007 and got it primarily to get my current job, which I started in 2009. I was lucky to get in at the first time of applying a year or two before (it seemed) every other foreign teacher in Korea (and their dogs) had an MA TESOL.
Despite the fact that I'll have 6 years of uni teaching experience (with good evaluations and 'best teacher' awards) and a CELTA at the end of my current contract, I've told my wife not to hold her breath for me to get another uni job if I'm not renewed. In fact I'm almost assuming I'll be opening a study room when the non-renewal comes (if I don't jump before, which I'm seriously considering at the moment -many colleagues have already bailed from this supposedly 'highly-prized' position).
Although of course the vacation is still great, would I study for an MA TESOL now in order to try to get a Korean uni job? You'd have to be nuts. |
SungKuenGwan
| Quote: |
| oh, if you were directing that grading comment at me, obviously there's a huge amount of difference in the TYPE of grading one is responsible for and time spent outside of clas...for example at sunggyunwan where they make you teach entire semester of writing classes and then another semester of "presentation" classes (I'm pretty sure SNU is simiar)...there would obviously be significantly more grading time involved (essays) then just teaching some conversation 101class with interchange or whatever..as someone who claims to have taught esl before that should have been blatantly obvious..just saying'! |
True or not?
Seoul National
| Quote: |
SNU USED TO BE the place to work. People were making great salaries (well above 4.0) for 12 contact hours (NO WRITING CLASSES before someone chimes in on the TRUE number of hours required), with housing free or supplemented (can't remember) and annual pay increases. THEN they cut wages, put in term limits, offered no pay increases and whatever else they did to drive out every single experienced teacher there. |
I got more if you need it . |
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frankhenry
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:04 am Post subject: |
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5 university teachers have posted and stated that they are happy with their jobs, salaries, and treatment. Some have mentioned their coworkers' similar experience. Straight from the horses' mouths.
1 bitter guy who claims it's not possible that these other university instructors and their friends are having a good experience. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| frankhenry wrote: |
5 university teachers have posted and stated that they are happy with their jobs, salaries, and treatment. Some have mentioned their coworkers' similar experience. Straight from the horses' mouths.
1 bitter guy who claims it's not possible that these other university instructors and their friends are having a good experience. |
too small of a sample in addition we dont know the terms of their contacts or their expense levels. One thing we do know ifs that universities try to stuff visas.
Also seem to support such a policy.
Worse than that is that Frank Henry says that any one who speaks ill of a university is bitter and unqualified. That is an apologist if there ever was.. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:38 am Post subject: |
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| GENO123 wrote: |
I will respond to all of your answers
who do you have to back your clams?
You got Seoul Nate who says you make 50K dollars working at a Korean university and then when he is shown that is numbers don't add up says you can't use dollars to measure even though he said you make 50K US dollars int he first place.
You got Goat who says you can make enough money during vacations so that you can save your entire salary during the entire year.
You got Jackson7 who among other things has been trying to stop any negative discussion of universities well before I got interested in the subject.
And you got a lady who pumps teaching in Korea for money. Her blog is an advertisement for her books.
You have Frank Henry who saysthat teachers who speak ill of their university are unqualifeid
All your witnesses are fairly tainted. It is pretty fair that one should take what each and everyone of them say with a grain of salt.
and you got you Top Hate Cat who says apologist stuff like "she gets paid in won and she buys stuff in won" and thinks it is okay that universities try to stuff F visas.
Truly a tainted group.
Now how much is 2.7 - 2.8M in US dollars? |
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