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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| This guy is laughed at and sneered at by the majority of people in Korea be it other expats or locals. If he can deal with that fine, however it's not a reputation I wish to have on my record and it's not something a lot of people would want to do. Ignore it, deny it, do whatever you want but it holds true. If it were children and a young teacher, fine. Or even an older teacher encouraging the children to dance, fine. An old/strange guy teaching a bunch of adults to dance and sing without shoes IS weird, I'm finding you a bit strange also because you didn't even bat an eyelid at this. |
That's because a lot of people who post on here haven't grown out of their own teenage self-conscious phase enough to look at it objectively. I can view his antics along the same lines as if I watched a bunch of drama students pretending to be trees or a children's TV presenter wearing a bunny suit. They can all be useful/engaging to certain demographics, in certain contexts. Not being able to see that strikes of immaturity. |
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Fuzzy_Dunlop
Joined: 18 Jun 2014
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnML wrote: |
Typical poster on this website, can only see his own side of the view. I could give it a shot this is basic TEFL 101 but I can't be bothered because it doesn't interest me enough and neither is anyone else interested it would seem. As I keep having to mention in my posts with you, I'm not a teacher anymore. You've completely ignored all points I've made because you've no counter arguments against them.
This guy is laughed at and sneered at by the majority of people in Korea be it other expats or locals. If he can deal with that fine, however it's not a reputation I wish to have on my record and it's not something a lot of people would want to do. Ignore it, deny it, do whatever you want but it holds true. If it were children and a young teacher, fine. Or even an older teacher encouraging the children to dance, fine. An old/strange guy teaching a bunch of adults to dance and sing without shoes IS weird, I'm finding you a bit strange also because you didn't even bat an eyelid at this. |
In the time it took you to write a post making excuses, you could have answered the questions I put to you. Or at least come up with some sort of pedagogically sound critique of the activity in the video. It's obvious you can't.
1. Laughed/sneered at by a MAJORITY of locals? Source please?
2. You don't have to have his reputation on your record. Why so concerned? (and again - why so self-centered?)
3. Only young teachers can teach children effectively? Source, please?
4. Old/strange guy? What criteria did you use to analyze his personality? What qualifications do you have in this field?
5. No shoes. No, I didn't bat an eyelid at this. Because I don't care. There a quite a few legitimate reasons he could have no shoes on. Maybe no one had shoes on - we don't know. Maybe he took them off just for the activity. Maybe he never wears shoes (his choice). Maybe it's accepted or the norm where he is teaching. We really don't know how he came to be sans shoes - and again, no, I don't care. Why should I?
Your argument against is pretty much all ad hominem (You think he is "strange") and has no basis in fact or literature. That's all you got.
You seem to take great pride in being professional, but can't craft a cogent argument to critique the lesson. That's what a professional would do. Ad hominem attacks are not professional. |
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Fuzzy_Dunlop
Joined: 18 Jun 2014
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| That's because a lot of people who post on here haven't grown out of their own teenage self-conscious phase enough to look at it objectively. I can view his antics along the same lines as if I watched a bunch of drama students pretending to be trees or a children's TV presenter wearing a bunny suit. They can all be useful/engaging to certain demographics, in certain contexts. Not being able to see that strikes of immaturity. |
This. Ed is a much better writer than I am. |
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JohnML
Joined: 05 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: |
| JohnML wrote: |
| Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: |
| JohnML wrote: |
| Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: |
| JohnML wrote: |
Not even going to bother laughing at this because I feel some sort of deep sympathy to everyone involved in that video.
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Your SYMPATHY....Wow.
This might be the douchiest thing you've posted on this board - and that's saying something.
You see a lesson with a clear aim and fully engaged learners and that's your response? You're a bigger asshat than I thought.
You talk about being professional. A professional teacher would watch that video and think, "Wow! Look at that engagement. Is there any way I might be able to adapt that to my teaching context. It seems very effective."
I see you avoided answering the questions I put to you. That's exactly what I thought would happen.
What pedagogically based criticism do you have for the activity or its execution? |
Awww, shucks. People can continue claiming I'm a douche but I've been abused by people far more on this website for quoting the truth/having another opinion than vice versa. Also you need to read posts I answered your question concisely, I'm not going into detail in answering each individual point as this would be a waste of my time. You need to face the fact that the majority opinion of this guy will be that he's a laughing stock. |
Can't do it, can you?
I thought so.
Go back to driving your train. |
Typical poster on this website, can only see his own side of the view. I could give it a shot this is basic TEFL 101 but I can't be bothered because it doesn't interest me enough and neither is anyone else interested it would seem. As I keep having to mention in my posts with you, I'm not a teacher anymore. You've completely ignored all points I've made because you've no counter arguments against them.
This guy is laughed at and sneered at by the majority of people in Korea be it other expats or locals. If he can deal with that fine, however it's not a reputation I wish to have on my record and it's not something a lot of people would want to do. Ignore it, deny it, do whatever you want but it holds true. If it were children and a young teacher, fine. Or even an older teacher encouraging the children to dance, fine. An old/strange guy teaching a bunch of adults to dance and sing without shoes IS weird, I'm finding you a bit strange also because you didn't even bat an eyelid at this. |
In the time it took you to write a post making excuses, you could have answered the questions I put to you. Or at least come up with some sort of pedagogically sound critique of the activity in the video. It's obvious you can't.
1. Laughed/sneered at by a MAJORITY of locals? Source please?
2. You don't have to have his reputation on your record. Why so concerned? (and again - why so self-centered?)
3. Only young teachers can teach children effectively? Source, please?
4. Old/strange guy? What criteria did you use to analyze his personality? What qualifications do you have in this field?
5. No shoes. No, I didn't bat an eyelid at this. Because I don't care. There a quite a few legitimate reasons he could have no shoes on. Maybe no one had shoes on - we don't know. Maybe he took them off just for the activity. Maybe he never wears shoes (his choice). Maybe it's accepted or the norm where he is teaching. We really don't know how he came to be sans shoes - and again, no, I don't care. Why should I?
Your argument against the activity is pretty much all ad hominem (You think he is "strange") and has no basis in fact or literature. That's all you got.
You seem to take great pride in being professional, but can't craft a cogent argument to critique the lesson. That's what a professional would do. Ad hominem attacks are not professional. |
For a start you seem to be the exact type of person you describe some of your observed teachers to be the guy who thinks he knows things, but doesn't. Isn't surprising at all. Secondly I have no desire to answer your question in detail, I'm not a teacher anymore so I don't care.
1) If you don't realize this you are beyond hope. Look at the responses in this thread. I'm obviously not going to be able to find sources to show an individual teacher is laughed at anymore than x unknown teacher but the whole industry as a whole is generally sneered at. Also conversations with locals when I was a teacher taught me this also/working outside the industry.
2) That's fine but in my eyes and a large portion of people this dude is weird AF and is a joke. If he can deal with that fine, that's just how a lot of people feel.
3) Nothing to do with this and you know it, to see an old bald/weird looking dude teaching a bunch of adults is not the social norm. You don't see this a lot at all in the west, for good reasons.
4) Looking at him, he just gives that vibe off. It's strange that you're the only one in this whole thread who hasn't seen it  .
5) I have no response to the sheer stupidity in this post. So it's acceptable not to wear shoes now when teaching people? He's not on a beach, he's indoors. It's unhygienic, unprofessional and downright weird.
Clearly you have an extremely exotic view of teaching, thankfully most people have some type of sensible balance. |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnML wrote: |
So it's acceptable not to wear shoes now when teaching people? He's not on a beach, he's indoors. It's unhygienic, unprofessional and downright weird. |
That depends. Granted, I'm not in Korea, but I teach in a regular public high school & my classroom is strictly barefoot only. The kids & I leave our slippers at the door. They sweep & mop the room regularly. Its delightful! |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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3) Nothing to do with this and you know it, to see an old bald/weird looking dude teaching a bunch of adults is not the social norm. You don't see this a lot at all in the west, for good reasons.
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What are you talking about? This is such a bizarre statement and by far the weirdest thing I've seen written in the thread so far. Have you never set foot inside a university? They're chocoblock full of old, bald, weird guys teaching adults. As are any other seats of adult learning. |
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Fuzzy_Dunlop
Joined: 18 Jun 2014
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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I posed 4 questions to you to see if you offer any insight into whether you understood the aim of the lesson and the pedagogical rationale behind it.
You claim you don't have time to answer the questions, but since I put them to you, you've had time to write all of this?
Dodge much?
All you've got is appeal to popularity and ad hominem. Both logical fallacies.
Why should any of us let your bizarre footwear fetish influence our lesson planning?
| JohnML wrote: |
I never suggested they learned nothing, looked like they were fully engaged I'm not a teacher anymore and I can see this, my problems with this lay elsewhere.
That's my problem though, this is appropriate for a young teacher who is teaching young children. When you factor in it's an old/bald/fat/strange dude, with no shoes (seriously man?!) teaching a bunch of adults who I believe are teachers, right? That's when things get weird. I actually value professionalism/image, there is lack of engagement then there is being too desperate to engage your class at the sacrifice of everything else. I don't think most adults would be keen to engage in learning in such a way, especially in such serious asian countries.
Maybe if I was blind drunk and wanted to make myself the idiot, which we all do... but not in the workplace. It's really cringe worthy to watch and it's not at all how I'd like to paint a picture of myself for my children. I like to be seen as the professional/ laid back guy but not the complete fool.
Look at the initial and often continued reaction of posters (even teachers) in this thread, they all think the guy is a joke. Whether you want to admit it or not this is public perception, I do care about my image... many people do. So you have no point to counter this unless you want to say that this type of stuff is widely accepted, in which case you'd be a liar. I cared about my students learning but I cared about my professional image just as much, this is called being a human.
I answered the question you gave me, I believe he gave a good lesson. As I mentioned in the first post which you conveniently ignored this isn't my problem with this guy. He is middle-aged, at that age he should have more respect for himself. To see a shoeless, bald/fat guy in a cheap t-shirt teaching other adults in this manner is ridiculous to say the least and reminds me of a circus.
Also you seem to have got the wrong impression of me, when I worked as a teacher I always took on board all the suggestions other teachers (including locals) gave me because they are far more qualified to do this job than me. However if someone had made this suggestion, it would be a case of "Okay I respect your opinion but I do not wish to do this". This guy may be a respected professional to you but in the wider expat/professional community I can assure you he is considered a joke and the opinions of other people matter to me.
Awww, shucks. People can continue claiming I'm a douche but I've been abused by people far more on this website for quoting the truth/having another opinion than vice versa. Also you need to read posts I answered your question concisely, I'm not going into detail in answering each individual point as this would be a waste of my time. You need to face the fact that the majority opinion of this guy will be that he's a laughing stock.
Typical poster on this website, can only see his own side of the view. I could give it a shot this is basic TEFL 101 but I can't be bothered because it doesn't interest me enough and neither is anyone else interested it would seem. As I keep having to mention in my posts with you, I'm not a teacher anymore. You've completely ignored all points I've made because you've no counter arguments against them.
This guy is laughed at and sneered at by the majority of people in Korea be it other expats or locals. If he can deal with that fine, however it's not a reputation I wish to have on my record and it's not something a lot of people would want to do. Ignore it, deny it, do whatever you want but it holds true. If it were children and a young teacher, fine. Or even an older teacher encouraging the children to dance, fine. An old/strange guy teaching a bunch of adults to dance and sing without shoes IS weird, I'm finding you a bit strange also because you didn't even bat an eyelid at this.
For a start you seem to be the exact type of person you describe some of your observed teachers to be the guy who thinks he knows things, but doesn't. Isn't surprising at all. Secondly I have no desire to answer your question in detail, I'm not a teacher anymore so I don't care.
1) If you don't realize this you are beyond hope. Look at the responses in this thread. I'm obviously not going to be able to find sources to show an individual teacher is laughed at anymore than x unknown teacher but the whole industry as a whole is generally sneered at. Also conversations with locals when I was a teacher taught me this also/working outside the industry.
2) That's fine but in my eyes and a large portion of people this dude is weird AF and is a joke. If he can deal with that fine, that's just how a lot of people feel.
3) Nothing to do with this and you know it, to see an old bald/weird looking dude teaching a bunch of adults is not the social norm. You don't see this a lot at all in the west, for good reasons.
4) Looking at him, he just gives that vibe off. It's strange that you're the only one in this whole thread who hasn't seen it .
5) I have no response to the sheer stupidity in this post. So it's acceptable not to wear shoes now when teaching people? He's not on a beach, he's indoors. It's unhygienic, unprofessional and downright weird.
Clearly you have an extremely exotic view of teaching, thankfully most people have some type of sensible balance.
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: |
| A professional teacher would watch that video and think, "Wow! Look at that engagement. Is there any way I might be able to adapt that to my teaching context. It seems very effective." |
Really? Did you think that? I didn't think that, and even after reading your admirable defense of that video, I still don't think that. That was absolutely horribly offensive to me as a professional teacher. Perhaps in the same way that a lot of pop-music is offensively pandering to lowest common denominator. Not to say you are off your mark on the educational side of the defense. Just that that video, that song, and his 'antics' are offensive to me...and apparently a few others, too.
If I were grading his 'video' from the educational perspective of 'pedagogical principles', it would get a pass...the same way you are defending it.
But in no way would I want others to copy 'his' style.
By the way, I know I took your comment out of context. My apologies for that. It seems you are having a go at another poster...fair enough. Just thought I would call you out on this as you made some good points but seem to be stretching it just a bit with that comment. Not sure you agree with my point, but just the same, good on you for defending what I would/did not. |
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tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:28 am Post subject: |
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What's your favorite subject?
I can't hear you? |
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tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:30 am Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: |
| A professional teacher would watch that video and think, "Wow! Look at that engagement. Is there any way I might be able to adapt that to my teaching context. It seems very effective." |
Really? Did you think that? I didn't think that, and even after reading your admirable defense of that video, I still don't think that. That was absolutely horribly offensive to me as a professional teacher. Perhaps in the same way that a lot of pop-music is offensively pandering to lowest common denominator. Not to say you are off your mark on the educational side of the defense. Just that that video, that song, and his 'antics' are offensive to me...and apparently a few others, too.
If I were grading his 'video' from the educational perspective of 'pedagogical principles', it would get a pass...the same way you are defending it.
But in no way would I want others to copy 'his' style.
By the way, I know I took your comment out of context. My apologies for that. It seems you are having a go at another poster...fair enough. Just thought I would call you out on this as you made some good points but seem to be stretching it just a bit with that comment. Not sure you agree with my point, but just the same, good on you for defending what I would/did not. |
I didn't think that?
I thought, there are much better ways to engage adults. |
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drcrazy
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Location: Pusan. Yes, that's right. Pusan NOT Busan. I ain't never been to no place called Busan
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:35 am Post subject: |
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Most of the posts about the clip are so strange. He is a teacher trainer. The students are teachers and (based on age) most likely in-service teachers. They are not learning English. They already know English. They are teacher training presentations.  |
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tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| drcrazy wrote: |
| Most of the posts about the clip are so strange. He is a teacher trainer. The students are teachers and (based on age) most likely in-service teachers. They are not learning English. They already know English. They are teacher training presentations. |
This is what I previously noted. Exactly. Horse and Pony Show |
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drcrazy
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Location: Pusan. Yes, that's right. Pusan NOT Busan. I ain't never been to no place called Busan
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:47 am Post subject: |
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| tophatcat wrote: |
| drcrazy wrote: |
| Most of the posts about the clip are so strange. He is a teacher trainer. The students are teachers and (based on age) most likely in-service teachers. They are not learning English. They already know English. They are teacher training presentations. |
This is what I previously noted. Exactly. Horse and Pony Show |
Looks like it works when you see the teachers with their kids.
http://www.genkienglish.net/schoolsubjects.htm |
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Fuzzy_Dunlop
Joined: 18 Jun 2014
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:48 am Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: |
| A professional teacher would watch that video and think, "Wow! Look at that engagement. Is there any way I might be able to adapt that to my teaching context. It seems very effective." |
Really? Did you think that? I didn't think that, and even after reading your admirable defense of that video, I still don't think that. That was absolutely horribly offensive to me as a professional teacher. Perhaps in the same way that a lot of pop-music is offensively pandering to lowest common denominator. Not to say you are off your mark on the educational side of the defense. Just that that video, that song, and his 'antics' are offensive to me...and apparently a few others, too.
If I were grading his 'video' from the educational perspective of 'pedagogical principles', it would get a pass...the same way you are defending it.
But in no way would I want others to copy 'his' style.
By the way, I know I took your comment out of context. My apologies for that. It seems you are having a go at another poster...fair enough. Just thought I would call you out on this as you made some good points but seem to be stretching it just a bit with that comment. Not sure you agree with my point, but just the same, good on you for defending what I would/did not. |
I don't know if I would use the same style. I'm much too self conscious for that.
I've done a lot of observations - so maybe it's become my habit to look for the positives and to relate them to my own practice. So yeah, I'm not embarrassed to say that when I watched that video there were take-aways for me. I've used music in class to varying levels of success - this guy garnered great engagement (that can't be denied). So, when I look at it, I do think - maybe there's something here I can learn from.
The "professional" comment was aimed at someone else. To me, being professional means finding the positives, reflecting on my own practice, and improving.
Responding "That idiot isn't wearing shoes" (when you have no idea what the context of the lesson was, or why he was sans shoes) without looking for any of the positives (well, I doubt that guy has the knowledge to actually identify what was happening in the video).
Other people don't take the same view that I do, but I don't categorize them as strange or deficient in practice. Again...professional.
I'm curious as to the "offended" comment. The video personally offends you? |
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drcrazy
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Location: Pusan. Yes, that's right. Pusan NOT Busan. I ain't never been to no place called Busan
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:53 am Post subject: |
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| tophatcat wrote: |
| drcrazy wrote: |
| Most of the posts about the clip are so strange. He is a teacher trainer. The students are teachers and (based on age) most likely in-service teachers. They are not learning English. They already know English. They are teacher training presentations. |
This is what I previously noted. Exactly. Horse and Pony Show |
You thought they were the students learning English. That is why you said, "I thought, there are much better ways to engage adults." |
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