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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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 Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| TheMeerkatLover wrote: |
| GENO123 wrote: |
| I thought you didnt care what i had to say. At any rate the conditions and actual pay at most of the big faous schools are just as how i describrd them . Why in the world would anyone have a problem with someone doing ? |
There are no 'famous' schools in Korea. No one in the developed world would consider any of the universities here able to contribute meaningfully in any manner. The 'famous' universities here are only for the locals since the Chaebol cherry pick their graduates from them.
Outside Korea, no one cares.
I find it funny you call them 'famous'. It's like you're a Korean pretending to be a foreigner. |
I don't care about semantics only conditions and take home pay. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| jackson7 wrote: |
| Ugh. Even when the net pay is only 25-30M (that's not including pension, which is great for uni teachers), it's still an incredible per hour rate. Factor in the extra grading for writing classes, and no teaching for syllabi intros, etc., and you end up with maybe 20 hours a week on a 12-15 hr/week schedule (unless you're incompetent and can't get your grading and prep done, or assign endless homework for the sake of assigning it). 30 weeks of 20 hours is 600 hours of work, with long vacations, 3-day weekends, and usually afternoons or mornings off. That's over 40k/hr net pay, which isn't too bad at all! Now GENO, get a life, or get a better job! |
THE WAY IT ACTUALLY IS:
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oh, if you were directing that grading comment at me, obviously there's a huge amount of difference in the TYPE of grading one is responsible for and time spent outside of clas...for example at sunggyunwan where they make you teach entire semester of writing classes and then another semester of "presentation" classes (I'm pretty sure SNU is similar)...there would obviously be significantly more grading time involved (essays) then just teaching some conversation 101class with interchange or whatever..as someone who claims to have taught esl before that should have been blatantly obvious..just saying'! |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: Making the transition to a university job in Korea |
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| stevieg4ever wrote: |
| I'd really like to get a position in Seoul but i've read that you need some university experience behind you to do this, is this true? |
Very true. Without a masters and university teaching experience, unis in Seoul won't even look at your application. A few years ago (when things were less competitive than now), the author of the how to get a university job in Korea e-book tried to get a uni job in Seoul. Even as an ideal candidate as she put it- North American female with a masters and university teaching experience- she was unable to. Now- in 2016- with a BA (but no four years of university teaching experience), you don't stand a chance in hell. Ten years ago was another story- almost anyone could get in, but with each passing semester, it gets more and more competitive.
| Cliff wrote: |
I think that the book makes it seem easier than it actually is to be able to get a university job. I have a master's degree, a couple of years of teaching/training experience, and am currently in Korea. According to the book, I should have a decent shot at acquiring a university job. So after editing my application documents and having a current Korean university professor (and HR professional) look over my resume, I applied to over twenty-five different positions university and unigwon positions. The result: not a single interview. It wasn't just sending out resumes either- it was networking, attending KOTESOL meetings and other tips that the book recommended.
So while the book offers good tips and while I would certainly recommend it, I think that the book views the Korean university position job market with rose-colored glasses. In reality, there are so many people in Korea looking for work (and so many people with advanced degrees) that it is next to impossible to get a university job these days. Again I recommend the book, but I think it can falsely get your hopes up when the English teaching market is getting more and more competitive each year in Korea. Without a master's (or higher degree) in ESL and at least two years of university teaching experience, you're going to be hard-pressed to find a university job in my humble opinion. |
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jlb
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:59 am Post subject: |
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"Very true. Without a masters and university teaching experience, unis in Seoul won't even look at your application. A few years ago (when things were less competitive than now), the author of the how to get a university job in Korea e-book tried to get a uni job in Seoul. Even as an ideal candidate as she put it- North American female with a masters and university teaching experience- she was unable to. Now- in 2016- with a BA (but no four years of university teaching experience), you don't stand a chance in hell. Ten years ago was another story- almost anyone could get in, but with each passing semester, it gets more and more competitive. "
Not entirely true. I applied to ONLY the top-tier jobs in Seoul and Busan (I think it was the best 15 jobs or so in the country), and got interviews/offers at more than a few of them. Busan was always my first choice so I took at job there. |
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jackson7
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Location: Kim Jong Il's Future Fireball
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| GENO123 wrote: |
| jackson7 wrote: |
| Ugh. Even when the net pay is only 25-30M (that's not including pension, which is great for uni teachers), it's still an incredible per hour rate. Factor in the extra grading for writing classes, and no teaching for syllabi intros, etc., and you end up with maybe 20 hours a week on a 12-15 hr/week schedule (unless you're incompetent and can't get your grading and prep done, or assign endless homework for the sake of assigning it). 30 weeks of 20 hours is 600 hours of work, with long vacations, 3-day weekends, and usually afternoons or mornings off. That's over 40k/hr net pay, which isn't too bad at all! Now GENO, get a life, or get a better job! |
THE WAY IT ACTUALLY IS:
| Quote: |
oh, if you were directing that grading comment at me, obviously there's a huge amount of difference in the TYPE of grading one is responsible for and time spent outside of clas...for example at sunggyunwan where they make you teach entire semester of writing classes and then another semester of "presentation" classes (I'm pretty sure SNU is similar)...there would obviously be significantly more grading time involved (essays) then just teaching some conversation 101class with interchange or whatever..as someone who claims to have taught esl before that should have been blatantly obvious..just saying'! |
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My mere existence is in direct opposition to the mindless drivel with which GENO fills Dave's. Whether he's simply a hagwon washout, or a public school guy that just couldn't make the cut in a real uni gig, it's painfully apparent that he'd never be able to do the job if ever given the chance. You're a sad, pathetic expat, G. I hope things get better for you. I'll be relaxing away for yet another few weeks, as long paid vacations never seem to get old. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:37 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for responding to a one year old post. You must be mega threatened. Well that is encouraging.
You got an online degree dont you? Wow you are mega qualified.
How much is 2.7 / 2.8 in US dollars?
As i said before there are some teachers who sell out there coworkers for benefits. cough cough, jackson7.
Funny he says nothing to contradict the two stories above. Lack of answer = unwillingness to answer.
Also since working at a big famous school is not a good job anyway whether some one is at one or not isnt anything to be proud of or bragging about. It is like Kobe beef bragging that they are better than factory farm beef. In both cases you go to the slaughter house. Big famous Korean universities treat teachers worse than servants.
How is your prediction and analysis on the value of the won going?
This is how it actually is:
Hong IK
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don't forget our friends at Hongik Univ who are docking teachers 80k/class hour/week when you lose classes to drop you below 15 hours/week. Of course you make it up the following semester as OT but your are only paid 28k/hour for that and can only make up 6 hours/semester |
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My uni job used to be one of the best around until they upped the hours to 15 and changed the contract so we lose 720,000W a month if a class gets cancelled (which happens to about 25% of teachers every semester). I think you know which uni I'm talking about.
I got my MA TESOL in the UK back in 2007 and got it primarily to get my current job, which I started in 2009. I was lucky to get in at the first time of applying a year or two before (it seemed) every other foreign teacher in Korea (and their dogs) had an MA TESOL.
Despite the fact that I'll have 6 years of uni teaching experience (with good evaluations and 'best teacher' awards) and a CELTA at the end of my current contract, I've told my wife not to hold her breath for me to get another uni job if I'm not renewed. In fact I'm almost assuming I'll be opening a study room when the non-renewal comes (if I don't jump before, which I'm seriously considering at the moment -many colleagues have already bailed from this supposedly 'highly-prized' position).
Although of course the vacation is still great, would I study for an MA TESOL now in order to try to get a Korean uni job? You'd have to be nuts. |
SungKuenGwan
| Quote: |
| oh, if you were directing that grading comment at me, obviously there's a huge amount of difference in the TYPE of grading one is responsible for and time spent outside of clas...for example at sunggyunwan where they make you teach entire semester of writing classes and then another semester of "presentation" classes (I'm pretty sure SNU is simiar)...there would obviously be significantly more grading time involved (essays) then just teaching some conversation 101class with interchange or whatever..as someone who claims to have taught esl before that should have been blatantly obvious..just saying' |
!
True or not?
Seoul National
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SNU USED TO BE the place to work. People were making great salaries (well above 4.0) for 12 contact hours (NO WRITING CLASSES before someone chimes in on the TRUE number of hours required), with housing free or supplemented (can't remember) and annual pay increases. THEN they cut wages, put in term limits, offered no pay increases and whatever else they did to drive out every single experienced teacher there. |
So true or not? |
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frankhenry
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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This long vacation sure is nice.  |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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Frank Henry says that anyone who speaks ill of a university is is an unqualified and a bad teacher.
That tells us everything we need to know about him
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=3000228&highlight=#3000228
Anyway outside of vacations everything else is a negative.
Notice FrankHenry says nothing about Hong Ik or Seoul National ;
What a suck up . He probably would not be above spying on other teachers to get ahead.
He also has no problem that universities try to stuff F visas.
So FrankHenry are the teachers above who spoke about Hong Ik and Seoul National under qualified and bad teachers?
As always a failure to answer = unwillingness to answer. |
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Chaucer
Joined: 20 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:22 pm Post subject: To stuff |
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| Having read these posts over and over, and been the target of some opporobrium, I would love to know in what native version of English "to stuff" means something like "use" or "abuse". Never heard it before. UK? Scottish? They "stuff" F-visas? I'm ignorant perhaps of the valence of this expression... |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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Fuzzy_Dunlop
Joined: 18 Jun 2014
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| jackson7 wrote: |
| Ugh. Even when the net pay is only 25-30M (that's not including pension, which is great for uni teachers), it's still an incredible per hour rate. Factor in the extra grading for writing classes, and no teaching for syllabi intros, etc., and you end up with maybe 20 hours a week on a 12-15 hr/week schedule (unless you're incompetent and can't get your grading and prep done, or assign endless homework for the sake of assigning it). 30 weeks of 20 hours is 600 hours of work, with long vacations, 3-day weekends, and usually afternoons or mornings off. That's over 40k/hr net pay, which isn't too bad at all! |
What's your hourly rate the other 22 weeks? |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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Jackson7
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Didn't take long for the thread to attract the usual "uni gigs aren't all they're cracked up to be" posters. To each his own, I suppose, but at the end of the day, many enjoy making a lot of money for little contact hours and LOTS of vacation. |
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=233809&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30
2.1 -2.8 M take home is a lot of money
notice the misleading "contact hours" double talk
Jackson7
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No gloating here, friend. Just a reality check for those who think these jobs aren't a sweet deal, especially if you're able to use all that extra time you're afforded to pursue something meaningful and rewarding (time with your kids, write a book, higher education, etc.; you could even take on some very lucrative private lessons at 70-100k/hr if you're qualified and have a lick of Korean ability, if money is your main goal). I could NEVER picture myself in an office, no matter how much I was being paid, but I'm one who actually loves teaching, too. You sound like someone who's not so into it, or you have unfortunately found yourself at an institution with poorer conditions than you perceive. J7 |
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=232452&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60
Jackson7
| Quote: |
| Life in Korea is almost guaranteed for a foreigner, giving us jobs that let us save at least 1K USD per month while still living a very, very easy life. I've been saving about 30K USD per year for the past couple years, but am still falling short of my goals, so I've taken a job that lets me save 60K (but not in dear ol' K-ville, unfortunately). The livin' is easy in Korea, so don't worry about a thing. |
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2123273&highlight=#2123273 |
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Chaucer
Joined: 20 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:38 am Post subject: Re: To stuff |
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Great. Just checking. It's an odd usage no doubt.
I just had a great conversation with the head of my department--a rare bird in Korean academe in that he supports us foreign teachers, thinks we don't make much money, wants to keep us on staff, etc.
He says us F visa types can legally work other jobs as long as those jobs are at non-profit institutions. So the proofreading and outside work I've been doing at other places is all legal. Stuffed indeed--my bank account, that is. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:17 am Post subject: |
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Sometimes you need to coin a word to describe what occurs in a foreign land
What do you think of the other teachers stories.
I dont know what your boss said or if he has the power to make such decisions. Or even that you actully had such a coversation at all sincr it mirrors the conversation of this thread so closely. I mean it would be quite a coincidence that you had the exact same coversation as this thread with your boss while this thread was going on.
By the way do you still think that all teachers who get in trouble with their school are misfits?
Since the salary at schools is low it seems reasonable to let those with f visas just work where they can just as long it is out of the way.
An enlightened professor says you can work for non profits - wow that is mighty generous of him.
No imagine what the typical non enlightened Korean professors would say.
Last edited by GENO123 on Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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denverdeath
Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: Boo-sahn
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:23 am Post subject: |
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| GENO123 wrote: |
Sometimes you need to coin a word to describe what occurs in a foreign land
What do you think of the other teachers stories.
I dont know what your boss said or if he has the power to make such decisions. Or even that you actully had such a coversation at all sincr it mirrors the conversation of this thread so closely. I mean it would be quite a coincidence that you had the exact same coversation as this thread with your boss while this thread was going on.
By the way do you still think that all teachers who get in trouble with threre school are misfits?
Since the salary at schools is low it seems reasonable to let those with f visas just work where they can nust as long iy is out of the way.
An enlightened ptofessor says you can work for non profits wow that is mighty generous of him.
No imagine what the typical non enlightened korean professors would say. |
Again, GENO123, I'm pretty sure it ALL depends.
No, I don't work for one of those terrible(according to you) *s*k*y* places. I've worked for 4 different unis/colleges here. I've only had ONE department head/boss try to "stuff" my (F)visa regarding outside, non-school related work(granted, that was one in three as I didn't have an F-visa at the first place). The other places didn't/don't care much from what I could/can tell. Some of my highest paying privates have come from my jobs/bosses. Have I ever felt like I was being set up? No, not really. Nickel and dimed occasionally? Sure. The more important part of the legality/illegality of privates is more of a concern for the taxman and MOE[for a study room or private tutor's license(do they still have those?)] for any F-visa holder, if you ask me.
Even that place that "stuffed" my visa, the one that I had an argument with DURING the interview, never found out about anything I did on the side. If they did, and if they really wanted to make an example of me, they would've not re-hired me. I think it IS as simple as that at most places; not all. |
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