|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
|
 Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 12:19 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Quote: |
And then they find out that in the eyes of their Korean bosses they're really regarded as nothing more than disposable, transient labor who can be very easily replaced.
That can hurt the ego. It's also an issue if ESL is all you got in life and you have no other career options. It's kinda frightening in a way. |
Many foreign teachers in Korean university jobs, e.g the woman who's written all the books about it, make out that the faculty never showing any interest in what they're doing is a positive benefit to their job (and it is from a slacker's point of view) but, as you point out, this is probably linked to the fact that universities think your average foreign lecturer is easily replaceable, and thus not worth trying to develop or retain. They can't have it both ways. If they want to be valued as teachers, they should get jobs somewhere where they're encouraged to develop professionally, get performance managed, observed and assessed (not just from student popularity surveys) If they don't, they can't complain too much when they get the axe. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Malislamusrex
Joined: 01 Feb 2010
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This thread if funny. The guy who started the thread was simply searching for an alternative to public school, and it turns into the old 'university jobs are terrible in Korea.
Well, to put it bluntly, if anyone wants to improve themselves and earn above minimum wage an university job is probably the way to go.
But, kids with an MA in TESOL are not, and never will be considered faculty. They are disposable, and get paid more than an average Korean just because there is a lack of English speakers to meet the demand.
I am amused that glorified English teachers who teach English for 9 hours expect more than 3 million. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Malislamusrex wrote: |
This thread if funny. The guy who started the thread was simply searching for an alternative to public school, and it turns into the old 'university jobs are terrible in Korea.
Well, to put it bluntly, if anyone wants to improve themselves and earn above minimum wage an university job is probably the way to go.
But, kids with an MA in TESOL are not, and never will be considered faculty. They are disposable, and get paid more than an average Korean just because there is a lack of English speakers to meet the demand.
I am amused that glorified English teachers who teach English for 9 hours expect more than 3 million. |
agree
One can't really expect to walk in a university with a BA or even and MA and start of making 6 million per month with 18 weeks vacation per year.
GENO thinks he should get the same pay as a tenured PhD and get the same benefits, but work half the hours with half the responsibility. GENO is under-qualified. Lil GENO is throwing a temper tantrum. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="tophatecat"]
| Quote: |
agree
One can't really expect to walk in a university with a BA or even and MA and start of making 6 million per month with 18 weeks vacation per year.
GENO thinks he should get the same pay as a tenured PhD and get the same benefits, but work half the hours with half the responsibility. GENO is under-qualified. Lil GENO is throwing a temper tantrum. |
any proof for what you just wrote ?
UNIVERSITY CONDITIONS WITHOUT THE SMOKE AND MIRRORS
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=233809&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
At a big famous Korean University you will be treated worse than a servant.
Remember Universities try to stuff F visas.
Which means that Universities are sort of an evil trick.
Thread about extra work outside of a University
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2627056&highlight=#2627056
Last edited by GENO123 on Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:43 pm; edited 6 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
frankhenry
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Malislamusrex wrote: |
This thread if funny. The guy who started the thread was simply searching for an alternative to public school, and it turns into the old 'university jobs are terrible in Korea.
Well, to put it bluntly, if anyone wants to improve themselves and earn above minimum wage an university job is probably the way to go.
But, kids with an MA in TESOL are not, and never will be considered faculty. They are disposable, and get paid more than an average Korean just because there is a lack of English speakers to meet the demand.
I am amused that glorified English teachers who teach English for 9 hours expect more than 3 million. |
Next, he will ask you, "but how much is 3 million in US Dollars" as his argument.
a real dufus |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Malislamusrex wrote: |
This thread if funny. The guy who started the thread was simply searching for an alternative to public school, and it turns into the old 'university jobs are terrible in Korea.
Well, to put it bluntly, if anyone wants to improve themselves and earn above minimum wage an university job is probably the way to go.
But, kids with an MA in TESOL are not, and never will be considered faculty. They are disposable, and get paid more than an average Korean just because there is a lack of English speakers to meet the demand.
I am amused that glorified English teachers who teach English for 9 hours expect more than 3 million. |
9 hours for 3 m is not typical but what is known as contact hours has nothing to do with anything. I has always been total work and trouble compared to total pay. .
one could get I guess many over and above their university salary but universities try to stuff F -Visas
Here is a very representative case and for even this you would need to be at a school that treats you reasonably well.
| Quote: |
However in reality this isn't the case. I don't care how much vacation you get. The pay downright sucks.
Oh you can do camps and corporates because your hours are low and you have vacation? Well then yes you'll make a decent salary. But then you're working 40 hours like the rest of us and having the stress of commuting between different jobs, dealing with all the issues one job would give x2 x3.
Show me a uni job that has 12 contact hours a week, 20 weeks vacation and pays 5-6 million Won a month. No publication pressure or BS committee work either. You know one of those dream "I work an 18 hour week MAX and take off to Thailand for 3 months" type jobs that esl uni teachers like to brag about.
You either get paid decently but have to work for it and have the pieces of paper or BS "qualifications" some on here like to bang on about, OR you have a uni job that requires very little BUT PAYS VERY LITTLE. |
Last edited by GENO123 on Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:36 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="frankhenry"]
| Malislamusrex wrote: |
This thread if funny. The guy who started the thread was simply searching for an alternative to public school, and it turns into the old 'university jobs are terrible in Korea.
Well, to put it bluntly, if anyone wants to improve themselves and earn above minimum wage an university job is probably the way to go.
But, kids with an MA in TESOL are not, and never will be considered faculty. They are disposable, and get paid more than an average Korean just because there is a lack of English speakers to meet the demand.
I am amused that glorified English teachers who teach English for 9 hours expect more than 3 million. |
| Quote: |
Next, he will ask you, "but how much is 3 million in US Dollars" as his argument.
a real dufus[ |
NO I was going to answer it this way.
t that doesn't change the fact that FrankHenry is a a vile apologist and an dishonest individual.
FrankHenry said :
| Quote: |
| There haven't been any attempts to stuff my F visa. |
But his real answer was :
| Quote: |
Severance, no.
I have never asked about working extra outside of the university |
Not exactly an honest answer. Why would FrankHenry answer this way if he wasn't out to apologize for Korean universities?
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=235260&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=195
Frankhenry wrote:
| Quote: |
| under qualified, lousy teacher = bitter |
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=3000228&highlight=#3000228
That sums him up right there .
Now there is everything there is to know about FrankHenry. Everything. he is an apologist and a vile suck up of the worst sort. His posts prove it..
Remember according to Frankhenry teachers who speak ill of their schools are under qualified and incompetent. Nuff said.
Question:
could one support a family or pay back loans on 3 M a month ( which would be about 2.3 M or less after all deductions.) ?
But while we are at it how much is 3 M in US dollars ? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Malislamusrex
Joined: 01 Feb 2010
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
But... 70% of ESLer are on vacation. They are making decent money in Korea, especially by Korean standards and paying off debts. If anyone came to Korea to teach ESL because they thought it was a good career move to make enough disposable income to start a family, well, they wouldn't be very clever.
| GENO123 wrote: |
could one support a family or pay back loans on 3 M a month ( which would be about 2.3 M or less after all deductions.) ?
But while we are at it how much is 3 M in US dollars ? |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Malislamusrex wrote: |
But... 70% of ESLer are on vacation. They are making decent money in Korea, especially by Korean standards and paying off debts. If anyone came to Korea to teach ESL because they thought it was a good career move to make enough disposable income to start a family, well, they wouldn't be very clever.
| GENO123 wrote: |
could one support a family or pay back loans on 3 M a month ( which would be about 2.3 M or less after all deductions.) ?
But while we are at it how much is 3 M in US dollars ? |
|
Not making decent money. Unless they are doing other stuff. A job at a big famous school is NOT a cush job. By any means
.
On that salary you only pay your debts if you dont have anyone to support.
Nor is it good salary by Korean standards. You typical city bus drver gets 3 .6 m + perks + job security.
A worker at Hyundai motors makes 94 million won a year. That number is correct..
http://m.blog.naver.com/youkipark/100208487427
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=3001230#3001230
By korean standards no. Workers at korean companies earn more than most foreigners think. Plus they get other valuable and worthwhile perks and benefits that are not figured in to their salary
Korean universities try stuff f visas . the are like the factory in Les Miserables |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Malislamusrex
Joined: 01 Feb 2010
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yes, there are many jobs higher paying than ESL, people who are not happy with an ESL salary should seek a different career.
But, 3+ million is too much compensation for teaching English, than my tax dollars should subsidize.
| GENO123 wrote: |
| Malislamusrex wrote: |
But... 70% of ESLer are on vacation. They are making decent money in Korea, especially by Korean standards and paying off debts. If anyone came to Korea to teach ESL because they thought it was a good career move to make enough disposable income to start a family, well, they wouldn't be very clever.
| GENO123 wrote: |
could one support a family or pay back loans on 3 M a month ( which would be about 2.3 M or less after all deductions.) ?
But while we are at it how much is 3 M in US dollars ? |
|
Not making decent money. Unless they are doing other stuff. A job at a big famous school is NOT a cush job. By any means
.
On that salary you only pay your debts if you dont have anyone to support.
Nor is it good salary by Korean standards. You typical city bus drver gets 3 .6 m + perks + job security.
A worker at Hyundai motors makes 94 million won a year. That number is correct..
http://m.blog.naver.com/youkipark/100208487427
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=3001230#3001230
By korean standards no. Workers at korean companies earn more than most foreigners think. Plus they get other valuable and worthwhile perks and benefits that are not figured in to their salary
Korean universities try stuff f visas . the are like the factory in Les Miserables |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Paddycakes
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You became a teacher for the love of learning. You're supposed to be above petty bourgeois notions of money.
If you wanted a big paycheck to have a family, you should trained to work in the energy sector in Texas or North Dakota.... oh.... wait.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
But, 3+ million is too much compensation for teaching English, than my tax dollars should subsidize.
|
Your tax dollars subsidize English teachers at Korean universities? How does that work? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ONE) That many Jobs pay more than ESL doesn't not justify that Korean Universities try to stuff F Visas.
TWO) Your tax dollars don't subsidize ESL Korea. On the contrary ESL is very profitable for Korean Universities.
@Malislamusrex do you pay US taxes I do. You know what I resent since we are playing that game that the US spends an enormous sum defending South Korea .
I resent them subsiding your way of life
SEE:
| Quote: |
By official calculations the United States already pays 88 percent of the costs of the American presence in Korea. As for Japan, Tokyo claims to pay 70 percent of the costs of the American forces in Japan, but that calculation excludes the troops' salaries; when salaries are included, Japan's share drops to half." |
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/12/03/world/welcome-mat-is-wearing-thin-for-gi-s-in-asia.html?pagewanted=2
| Quote: |
"Washington continues to maintain a large military presence in East Asia despite the collapse of Soviet communism and the growing strength of America's allies. Particularly dramatic is the transformation of the Korean peninsula, where the United States spends between $15 billion and $20 billion a year to defend South Korea, a nation fully capable of defending itself" |
http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/serials/files/cato-handbook-policymakers/1997/9/105-49.pdf
So Unless you pay US taxes STFU .
Please answer my question do you pay US taxes? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| GENO123 wrote: |
So Unless you pay US taxes STFU .
Please answer my question do you pay US taxes? |
Hello GENO,
Do you not see a contradiction in this form of communication? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| GENO123 wrote: |
So Unless you pay US taxes STFU .
Please answer my question do you pay US taxes? |
Hello GENO,
Do you not see a contradiction in this form of communication? |
I pay US taxes . I am not unable to completely avoid them
| Quote: |
| @Malislamusrex do you pay US taxes?- I do |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
