Korean Job Discussion Forums

[hubbahubba]

as their currency/economy goes in the tank?

What now?????

Please, I have no skills and I must continue to backpack.

[goat]

The NETs in China will be coming to Korea. 9000 teachers willing to work 35 classes a week for 1,400,000 WON per month.

[GENO123]

[northway]

[le-paul]

[GENO123]

[wonkavite62]

I get the impression that the ESL business goes up and down periodically. In Korea this is complicated by the fact that the current president is (a) cutting public school jobs, (b) is trying to make it easier to fire workers than before, and (c) is not interested in ESL.
Of course, it's not just about the government!
The Korean economy is sluggish. There is high unemployment. The outlook is not so good, but it's not as bad as say, Spain. Yet Spain-a country which still manages to advertise for ESL teachers(there is still a demand, actually), has been at death's door since 2008, with 20% + unemployment. There are some ESL jobs, including public school jobs, but the salary is not so good. €850 per month for public school jobs, and €1200 for private academies.
South Korea is better, some of the time anyway.
With regard to China, there is a HUGE demand for teachers. But not all jobs are the same. Before 2010, it was easy to get even university jobs in China. Now, the jobs are there, but a lot of "phony" jobs are advertised by recruiters, who sell on information to third parties. As you know, recruiters, and middlemen are a big problem in the industry. Offers of university jobs (as an ESL or conversation teacher) seem to be in decline, but it could be that there are more false ads. I've had a lot of problems with false Chinese ads.
Public school jobs are currently growing in China. But what you must remember, is that even with the Chinese bull market we had till recently,
by no means all positions are rent free! Why is that a problem? It's a problem because you may well have to pay 6 MONTHS of rent on DAY ONE! I had to pay 7 month's of rent within the first 60 days. This is crazy, because it can be A LOT especially in big cities. If you get "rent-free accommodation" the salary will be quite a bit lower. That suggests to me that you are paying rent anyway, but spread out through the year.
Salaries in China vary a lot. I may get 7000 enminbi per month for teaching in a province like Henan or Jiangxi, at a university. But I will get 12,000 renminbi at a public school in Beijing. The catch is that you pay a big chunk of rent up front in Beijing public schools. But the provincial university is rent-free. Private language schools may pay 15,000 renminbi, or 20,000 renminbi per month. But there is a lot more work, and fewer holidays. You may still have to pay 6 months' rent-ON DAY ONE! In an international school they give you £25,000 per month and a free apartment-if you have taught in state schools back home.
China seems to be responsible for the lion's share of ESL jobs right now. Korea used to have the same level of demand, and the demand might have recovered partially, by now if President Park not cut back public schools. I say might, advisedly. So what if we wake up to a massive BEAR MARKET in China, and an implosion of the ESL sector. If China goes the way of Japan, then it will be the end of ESL as we know it. China has a lot of jobs, or did. Take away these jobs and ESL gets much more competitive. However, that's not all. Remember, that in a globalized world, it would affect the West too. We could be looking at a return to the Great Depression, and problems that 1980's free market voodoo economics cannot deal with.
But China is a big country, and there are lots of variations. I cannot predict that China will go the way of Japan, because China is not in the same situation Japan was in during the 1990's. Korea, however, may follow Japan. I see similar problems, a similar, rigid mindset among the country's leaders, a tendency to exclude economic options that would help Korea, an insanely low birthrate (like the UK in the '30s), xenophobia and reluctance to let in immigrants who could fill the gap caused by a low birthrate, and so on. Also, reluctance to do what France did-pay mothers to have children yet stay in work.
But I want Korea to prosper!

[Mr. Pink]

Hi,

I am not sure what you are referring to. For years the RMB to US dollar was 6.4 to the US dollar. It was only within the past couple years it went 6.2 to the dollar. It is currently at 6.57 and during the stock market crash went up to 6.59.

By no means does this mean the sky is falling. On the amount ESL teachers make, it isn't much of a difference at the end of the day. Stuff is still cheap in China.

On around 100k US salary the change in conversion from last year is about 4k US difference. Compare that to those who are Canadian or Australian and they gained 20-30% more salary converting RMB to their local salary.

The other factor that isn't discussed is the very strong US dollar.

[JohnML]

China is okay for ESL but it isn't as great as some people claim. You make double what a local does but what nobody is mentioning is that teachers in china are paid 4000 rmb as an average salary . Teachers are treated like nothing in China. The average new ESL teacher salary in China is about 1.4-1.8 mil/month, experienced teachers earn 1.8-2.5 mil/month.

This is pretty good, right? I mean you work less than you would in Korea! The main problem here is that Korea has seen the bad times, China has yet to see the bad times (and it's coming). When it does those salaries are going right down. To put it into perspective the "top tier" earners are usually internationally qualified teachers in an international school. In my old city in China a Canadian international school (which had some 30 western teachers) in a small city. Paid 20,000 yuan/month (3.5~ mil won) to teachers (of subjects).

The high end here seems to be around 3.5 million won/month except you don't get as much free time as you would in a uni gig in Korea. Universities in China are jokes, it averages around the 1 mil won/month mark. They do offer good salaries for teaching subjects though. "Good" as in "ok" for the hours.

All these people saying you earn double that of a local in China. You earn double that of a local teacher because they are at the bottom of the job ladder. You don't earn double that of "locals". Professionals with 1 or two years experience are again paid more than ESL teachers in China (although to be fair the gap is much closer than it is in Korea).

Still I think teachers are better treated in China currently because they are less dispensable. It's not that easy to replace a lost teacher in a smaller city in China. However when the tide turns I don't know what is going to happen to asia because China is one of the last havens in the far east. I suspect beyond this it's going to get competitive and ugly for people.

[creeper1]

Some tefl ers think China is a better deal than Korea but let's be fair I don't think anyone referred to it as "paradise"

[young_clinton]

Get a degree if you don't already have one and get licensed in your own country. Also you look into Associate degrees for working in the Medical field. The ESL industry is going to fall apart with the Asian economy. The oil glut is not from oil reserves but from disintegrating demand in Asia. Be forewarned!

[young_clinton]

Phnom Penh has high wages for those with degrees and willing to do things like work on lesson plans and work long hours.

[northway]

[TheUrbanMyth]

[JohnML]

Whilst I agree that paying 6 months up front in Beijing is a bit ridiculous although it's getting more common. The average job in BJ these days does indeed offer accommodation but it's either a) a hellhole of an apartment or b) shared accomodation and usually both! An average apartment in Beijing is around 4000 rmb a month most schools aren't going to offer that type of benefit. without deducting it from salary.

Many places have their own halls/residence and a lot of the time teachers get a room not an apartment, in a Tier 2 or 3 rent is about 1500 rmb a month, not that big of a deal so you get your own pretty nice place. I don't think it's a teachers market so much anymore even in the small places. I've seen schools with 5+ natives in cities with 300,000 people~ and schools often refuse to budge on what they'll pay. You'll probably get 12,000 tops in the small places.

Lot o' people in China these days.