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Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:35 am Post subject:

Plain Meaning wrote:

Fox wrote:

Europe would do itself a favor by looking to East Asia for guidance here.

You mean European countries could stop or avoid bombing ISIS?

Sounds wise enough. If Middle Easterners are concerned with "ISIS" or what have you, then they can sort it out for themselves.

Plain Meaning wrote:

I refuse to discuss immigration policy in this thread.

I suppose we'll just have to live without hearing your thoughts on the topic here then.

Plain Meaning

Joined: 18 Oct 2014

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:14 am Post subject:

bigverne wrote:

Quote:

I refuse to discuss immigration policy in this thread. There are other threads where it is relevant. This is not one of them.

These attacks are the direct result of allowing millions of Muslims into the West. Immigration policy is entirely relevant.

Nope. These attacks are the direct result of bombing Middle Eastern countries. The Belgian nation signed on for the risk of this. Every country that bombs a country in that region risks suffering terrorist attacks.

For example, 9-11 was caused by Saudis (and others) almost entirely on non-immigrant visas. I am sure that you may well respond that no Muslims should ever be allowed to travel into European countries whatsoever. So what? That is not why Brussels was attacked.

Korea is not attacked by ISIS. We all know why. Immigration policy does not enter into it.

Swartz

Joined: 19 Dec 2014

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:04 pm Post subject:

Uh oh, someone is having another neural estro-surge.

Plain Meaning wrote:

These attacks are the direct result of bombing Middle Eastern countries. The Belgian nation signed on for the risk of this. Every country that bombs a country in that region risks suffering terrorist attacks.

This is why the the self-loathing European who has been brainwashed by Marxism and identifies more with an outgroup is often even more problematic than the West's Israel-first elite, who are the ones actually coordinating the bombings then collectivizing the guilt for the dolts. This frikin guy ... reads the deep state misdirection article two years late then thinks others will find him edgy for bringing it up at every turn. Trying to dictate what should and shouldn't be discussed. Totally clueless. The problem was/is allowing kebab in the door. End of story. They didn't ride bombs into Belgium.

Plain Meaning wrote:

Immigration policy does not enter into it.

Immigration has everything to do with it. It's, like, 100% of the reason why these incidents continue to happen.

chellovek

Joined: 29 Feb 2008

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:25 pm Post subject:

Damn brainwashed Marxist Europeans Marxism is to the right, what calling people Fascist is to the left. Seems like a catch all insult for tidily dismissing anything you don't like. Simultaneously it completely ignores what either political idea actually says, cheapening political discussion with misused lexicon. Sure there's plenty to discuss when it comes to immigration and Islam, but this "brainwashed Marxist" nonsense is just dumb.

Swartz

Joined: 19 Dec 2014

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:57 pm Post subject:

Any goy actually dumb enough to refer to himself as a Marxist, is sure to already be providing the cheapest political discussion imaginable.

bigverne

Joined: 12 May 2004

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:09 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Korea is not attacked by ISIS. We all know why.

Korea avoids all of the problems associated with mass Muslim immigration. We all know why.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:04 pm Post subject:

Fox wrote:

Leon wrote:

The refugees have not been the terrorists so far it's been citizens, so unless you make a mockery of the concept of citizenry I'm not sure what you can do about it.

I've seen this talking point repeated again and again, but it confuses me, because when I read it, I take away the exact opposite lesson from that which it is intended to impart. The lesson I see here is that when you accept someone into your country, you are not simply accepting them, but also their children, and their children's children, and so on and so forth. Yes, many individuals who have been involved in such crimes are citizens, which in this context is to say that they are the descendants of immigrants. One cannot change the past, but one can learn from it and avoid repeating the same mistakes in the future. Even if every single "refugee" were a gracious, thankful, peaceable individual who was simply overjoyed to have a new homeland, their children will feel the same entitlement as would any other citizen, and the results will be predictable.

Leon wrote:

I do know that segregated slums is not diversity or multicultralism, and that it seems that the US has done far better than Europe, but perhaps it is not a high bar.

It's hard to say exactly how much better the United States has really done in this regard, because the combination of low population density and dubious media ethics leaves us with little real information on the matter. I would personally guess that America has done better vis a vis it's relationship with its Muslim immigrants on account of its greater control over immigration from Old World countries, but I don't really know to what extent that's true. The only reason Europe's problem is being talked about at this point is because it's gotten sufficiently bad that the issue can no longer be brushed aside or covered up by well-intentioned-but-ultimately-irresponsible actors. Incidentally, that's exactly the point I was making to you recently when you suggested immigration isn't an issue in America: this tendency to absolutely ignore and dismiss problems until they move into a critical phase produces totally needless suffering and dysfunction. Ignore any problem which isn't yet a crisis and the reward will be living in a state of near-perpetual crisis.

I think the proposals you mentioned in another post were reasonable.

Also, I think that for Muslims in America, a big difference is income and education levels. Yes, there's been some incidents, but Muslim neighborhoods often have good relations with local police and the FBI. When you're family is relatively well-off, you have incentive to cooperate. I mean, when you have drug violence and shootings at a significant rate from Americans themselves, you have to consider the fact that any group is probably going to get some nutballs coming out of it. In the end (I read this in an article somewhere) there's something like 3.3 million Muslims in America and maybe 200 have gone to join ISIS (this in the land of their worst enemy). There's like 600,000 in Belgium and 500 have joined ISIS.

I think the only group that could really have trouble is the Somalis, but with good programs, problems should be overcome, provided numbers are kept to a reasonable level.

As far as Muslim attacks, there does seem to be a strong correlation between participation in GWoT and attacks. U.S., Belgium, Spain, U.K., France. And the other countries that have problems are mostly civil and ethnic wars, which can and do happen in non-Muslim countries. Turkey, Nigeria, Kenya, China, India, Pakistan, etc.

Countries like Argentina, Japan, S. Korea (3D workers), Venezuela, Mongolia, Singapore, etc. have significant numbers of Muslims, yet aren't dealing with these kinds of attacks or having the social problems from their Muslim population that other countries might. Maybe there's more to it than immigration.

Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:25 pm Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

I think the only group that could really have trouble is the Somalis, but with good programs, problems should be overcome, provided numbers are kept to a reasonable level.

Why do their numbers need to be kept to a "reasonable level" if it's not an immigration issue?

Steelrails wrote:

Countries like Argentina, Japan, S. Korea (3D workers), Venezuela, Mongolia, Singapore, etc. have significant numbers of Muslims, yet aren't dealing with these kinds of attacks or having the social problems from their Muslim population that other countries might. Maybe there's more to it than immigration.

Putting aside the fact that the number of Muslims in South Korea is probably not "significant" compared to the number of Muslims in a country like Belgium*, a temporary 3D worker cannot righly be compared to a citizen. 3D workers are on temporary-by-design visas: they are brought into the country to work, live under reasonably controlled circumstances, and can be legally deported back to their home countries. Yes, if Europe adopted that model, refusing to allow culturally-dissimilar individuals who were unlikely to integrate to gain citizenship, keeping such individuals on short-term visas, and deporting them when they were no longer deemed useful, Europe would probably also have much less of an issue on its hands right now.

*How many Muslims do live in each of those countries, exactly, either as citizens or as temporary workers? You imply you know the answer by judging the number to be "significant," so I for one would appreciate hearing the numeric breakdowns.

Leon

Joined: 31 May 2010

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:34 pm Post subject:

Fox wrote:

Steelrails wrote:

I think the only group that could really have trouble is the Somalis, but with good programs, problems should be overcome, provided numbers are kept to a reasonable level.

Why do their numbers need to be kept to a "reasonable level" if it's not an immigration issue?

Steelrails wrote:

I think, as an aside, continually saying Muslim is sloppy. For example, I do not think Iranian immigrants have proven to be a significant terror threat, or have Southeast asians, and I think they have mostly integrated fairly well. Really, it seems to be more of an Arab/south Asian issue, and I would suggest a large part is due to our friends in the Pakistan, Saudi, and the gulf using their influence and money to spread their salifist/wahabist take on things.

Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:48 pm Post subject:

Leon wrote:

I think, as an aside, continually saying Muslim is sloppy.

That's fair, and I agree. There are a variety of differing cultures within Islamic civilization, and there are a variety of individiuals within any given culture. Turks are not necessarily interchangeable with Iranians, neither is necessarily interchangeable with Pakistanis, and so forth, that's true. But articulating and re-articulating that notion in every single post would be a real impediment to conversation; it's hard to simultaneously speak about this issue with precision and absolute clarity, and speak in the comfortable, general terms which are conducive to conversation on a forum like this. Occasionally asking for clarification when it seems necessary is probably sufficient.

Leon

Joined: 31 May 2010

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:07 pm Post subject:

Fox wrote:

Leon wrote:

I think, as an aside, continually saying Muslim is sloppy.

I know, and I am not finding fault with you. I really do think it is an Arab/South Asian issue than a Muslim issue, and a recent issue (say since the mid-late 1980s) than one that is necessarily a predetermined issue with Islam. It just seems useful to mention these things every once in awhile.

In Korea, obliged in Ansan for 1 year, which is probably as diverse as it gets in Korea. I liked having kids from other countries, including a few from Islamic ones (maybe 3-5 I guess) and liked the chance to go to really authentic restaurants.

bigverne

Joined: 12 May 2004

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:52 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Countries like Argentina, Japan, S. Korea (3D workers), Venezuela, Mongolia, Singapore, etc. have significant numbers of Muslims

The percentage of Muslims in Korea is around 0.3% and in Japan even lower. The UK, for example, has 20x the number of Muslims. When Muslims are in small numbers they keep their heads down. As their population grows, so too do the demands and the social problems. Most of the Muslims in Korea and Japan have limited chance to settle permanently and would be deported if they started causing problems.

TheMeerkatLover

Joined: 26 Mar 2009

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:53 am Post subject:

tophatcat wrote:

They only want peace.

They achieve this after they've pretty much killed everyone else.

Good to see there are those who support policies that are essentially suicidal.

TheMeerkatLover

Joined: 26 Mar 2009

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:54 am Post subject:

bigverne wrote:

Europeans have a clear choice. We either accept the increasing violence, criminality, and colonisation of our countries that a rising Muslim population brings, allowing our towns and cities to turn into Islamabad and Mogadishu, populated by bearded primitives and niqabed women, or we stop all Muslim immigration and start discussing how to repatriate most of the many millions already here.

Give it a few more bombings and attacks and you may very well see the populations in Europe forcing these people to leave.

They're not 'refugees'. The moment they left Greece, they became economic migrants.

Titus2

Joined: 06 Sep 2015

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:14 pm Post subject:

bigverne wrote:

Quote:

Countries like Argentina, Japan, S. Korea (3D workers), Venezuela, Mongolia, Singapore, etc. have significant numbers of Muslims

Of the 20 refugees (welfare seeker parasites) granted residency in Japan last year 2 have already been charged with gang rape.

http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2016/02/22/tokyo-cops-arrest-turkish-asylum-seekers-in-gang-rape-of-woman/

xxxx

All of the above faux intellectualism and careful examination is lovely. The liberals and their #notallmuslims bullshit is especially great. Good job gals. Double points for the Marxist (yes, Marxist) IT'S INCOME AND EDUCATION (the evidence doesn't support this, but Marxists are religious freaks and it is what it is).

Here's how it's going to go: These major terrorists attacks and the mass gang rapes (as seen in Germany, UK, Sweden and others) are going to keep happening. Europeans are going to get more and more and more angry and liberal dildos will keep up with the #notallmuslims bullshit and then we'll have a nice big total war to clean it out and sort it out.

There is absolutely no other option and/or possible outcome.

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