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Paddycakes
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Korean female
BA English
26
1.6 @ 35 hrs. week; English Academy |
She probably lives at home with her parents, hence zero living expenses. BA's are mostly useless. Her English is probably okay, but no where near a native speaker's level, probably. Koreans still want their kids taught English by waygooks not Koreans.
1.6... not bad given her circumstances.
Now, if she had an "applied" degree in a STEM field and there was nothing wrong with their socially (not overly eccentric), then I would be shocked by 1.6.
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wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| Paddycakes wrote: |
| Quote: |
Korean female
BA English
26
1.6 @ 35 hrs. week; English Academy |
She probably lives at home with her parents, hence zero living expenses. BA's are mostly useless. Her English is probably okay, but no where near a native speaker's level, probably. Koreans still want their kids taught English by waygooks not Koreans.
1.6... not bad given her circumstances.
Now, if she had an "applied" degree in a STEM field and there was nothing wrong with their socially (not overly eccentric), then I would be shocked by 1.6.
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[/quote]
100%. Hit the nail on the head. That's her. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 6:38 am Post subject: |
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Non-native newb with a BA: 1.6
Native with an MA and two years uni teaching experience: 1.7
Almost the same. Maybe next year there will be a uni requiring the BA+4/MA+2 BS but only paying 1.6. Not too much of a stretch to think so. 50/50 chance?
What is the going rate for Korean hagwon teachers (who aren't all that good at speaking English)? I heard something like 2.0 for about the same number of teaching hours as a Westerner- the pay gap doesn't seem to be that great these days. 1.6 seems like it is on the low end. Don't they normally get slightly more? |
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wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
Non-native newb with a BA: 1.6
Native with an MA and two years uni teaching experience: 1.7
Almost the same. Maybe next year there will be a uni requiring the BA+4/MA+2 BS but only paying 1.6. Not too much of a stretch to think so. 50/50 chance?
What is the going rate for Korean hagwon teachers (who aren't all that good at speaking English)? I heard something like 2.0 for about the same number of teaching hours as a Westerner- the pay gap doesn't seem to be that great these days. 1.6 seems like it is on the low end. Don't they normally get slightly more? |
The pay is all over the board. I'm not sure there is a normal for Korean hagwon teachers. 1.6 is on the low end. |
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Bongotruck
Joined: 19 Mar 2015
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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2.0 Is about the industry standard right now.
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
Non-native newb with a BA: 1.6
Native with an MA and two years uni teaching experience: 1.7
Almost the same. Maybe next year there will be a uni requiring the BA+4/MA+2 BS but only paying 1.6. Not too much of a stretch to think so. 50/50 chance?
What is the going rate for Korean hagwon teachers (who aren't all that good at speaking English)? I heard something like 2.0 for about the same number of teaching hours as a Westerner- the pay gap doesn't seem to be that great these days. 1.6 seems like it is on the low end. Don't they normally get slightly more? |
The pay is all over the board. I'm not sure there is a normal for Korean hagwon teachers. 1.6 is on the low end. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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That's what I thought (and had heard also).
2.0 is the industry standard for non-native Koreans.
2.1 is the industry standard for Westerners.
Just 5% more for the 외국인s? Maybe 10% more? I remember listening to some Western gasbags claim foreigners make double what the Koreans make. Maybe a long time ago that was true, but no more... |
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wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
That's what I thought (and had heard also).
2.0 is the industry standard for non-native Koreans.
2.1 is the industry standard for Westerners.
Just 5% more for the 외국인s? Maybe 10% more? I remember listening to some Western gasbags claim foreigners make double what the Koreans make. Maybe a long time ago that was true, but no more... |
This is about on target.
The Korean teachers working in more affluent areas and who teach specialized materials can easily pull in 3.0 or more. The Westerners wages have mostly stagnated, since 2007. Korean teachers still have the potential or at least the opportunity to make good earnings. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| In some ways, Korea's like the west in the 1950's to 1970's. Folks could get a job with good pay easily. Now, not so much. |
America's best days aren't just the 50s, 60s, and 70s. They are now, too.
| Quote: |
| The number of Americans filing for unemployment benefits unexpectedly fell last week, hitting its lowest level since 1973 |
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wonkavite62
Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Location: Jeollanamdo, South Korea.
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2016 9:15 pm Post subject: Hi |
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I have heard people talk about the romance of working in Asia, and about foregoing a high salary to have an easier, stress-free life, but this is ridiculous. The "prestige" of the university job doesn't cut it with me. Certainly not if I can't save money!
Such a low salary suggests that the principal, president, dean, viceregent, doge or whatever his title is, is cynical, selfish-and woefully stingey? If he offering so little money, what will it be like when the job starts? Is it a private university? A campus hagwon? I am more than displeased by 1.7 million won. 
This job merits applicants a bachelor's degree from a diploma mill, and fake master's degrees from somewhere like Khaosan Road. |
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JohnML
Joined: 05 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2016 4:14 am Post subject: |
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| wonkavite62 wrote: |
I have heard people talk about the romance of working in Asia, and about foregoing a high salary to have an easier, stress-free life, but this is ridiculous. The "prestige" of the university job doesn't cut it with me. Certainly not if I can't save money!
Such a low salary suggests that the principal, president, dean, viceregent, doge or whatever his title is, is cynical, selfish-and woefully stingey? If he offering so little money, what will it be like when the job starts? Is it a private university? A campus hagwon? I am more than displeased by 1.7 million won.
This job merits applicants a bachelor's degree from a diploma mill, and fake master's degrees from somewhere like Khaosan Road. |
What prestige? Lol. Working as a tenure at a top 10 Korean university, there is a level of prestige. However anywhere else... especially a place that pays 1.7 million is just a "job". People do it like you say for the romance of working in asia and a stress free life. These people will always do so and they will always be undercutting everyone else. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Excellent post on the subject
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Challenge the uni conditions all you want. I'm just pointing out the obvious here.
Universities and most Koreans think that a Hogwon teacher and a English language uni teacher are the same thing. A uni esl teachers that puts a professor title in front of their name, then gets bent out of shape for not getting a 'professor' salary is delusional.
They think you are worth 3 mil, so that's the salary. Universities don't really want people with qualifications. 5 years ago, a pulse and a BA would have done.
With papers published in top international journals, I'm sure you'd have more options. The fact you aren't happy with the going rate when you are easily replaceable means nothing to university admin. |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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Exactly. Which is why I've consistently said two things:
1) Not all jobs pay only 3 million or less a month. Move on up if you can and if you want, but to do so means investing in your credentials. There are still some universities that DO care about credentials and experience, and they pay accordingly.
2) In the university pecking order, non-Ph.D. holding contracted instructors are pretty low down compared to Ph.D. holding Korean adjuncts and TT faculty. Even if they stick a 'visiting assistant professor' title in front of your name, it doesn't mean a thing.
The happiest people I know in university ESL don't give a rat's butt; they make their coin and enjoy their time off doing whatever it is they like to do. Prestige does not enter into the picture.
The most miserable people I've even met in ESL university positions are the ones, especially the ones with only a BA, who beat their head against that hierarchy to no avail. It's like a Dilbert cartoon. WHY WON'T ANYONE LISTEN TO ME? See the first part of number 2 above. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| PRagic wrote: |
Exactly. Which is why I've consistently said two things:
1) Not all jobs pay only 3 million or less a month. Move on up if you can and if you want, but to do so means investing in your credentials. There are still some universities that DO care about credentials and experience, and they pay accordingly.
2) In the university pecking order, non-Ph.D. holding contracted instructors are pretty low down compared to Ph.D. holding Korean adjuncts and TT faculty. Even if they stick a 'visiting assistant professor' title in front of your name, it doesn't mean a thing.
The happiest people I know in university ESL don't give a rat's butt; they make their coin and enjoy their time off doing whatever it is they like to do. Prestige does not enter into the picture.
The most miserable people I've even met in ESL university positions are the ones, especially the ones with only a BA, who beat their head against that hierarchy to no avail. It's like a Dilbert cartoon. WHY WON'T ANYONE LISTEN TO ME? See the first part of number 2 above. |
A few pay 3.5 before any and all deductions . 2.8 after deductions. So what.
Besides see this case:
Hong IK
| Quote: |
don't forget our friends at Hongik Univ who are docking teachers 80k/class hour/week when you lose classes to drop you below 15 hours/week. Of course you make it up the following semester as OT but your are only paid 28k/hour for that and can only make up 6 hours/semester |
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My uni job used to be one of the best around until they upped the hours to 15 and changed the contract so we lose 720,000W a month if a class gets cancelled (which happens to about 25% of teachers every semester). I think you know which uni I'm talking about.
I got my MA TESOL in the UK back in 2007 and got it primarily to get my current job, which I started in 2009. I was lucky to get in at the first time of applying a year or two before (it seemed) every other foreign teacher in Korea (and their dogs) had an MA TESOL.
Despite the fact that I'll have 6 years of uni teaching experience (with good evaluations and 'best teacher' awards) and a CELTA at the end of my current contract, I've told my wife not to hold her breath for me to get another uni job if I'm not renewed. In fact I'm almost assuming I'll be opening a study room when the non-renewal comes (if I don't jump before, which I'm seriously considering at the moment -many colleagues have already bailed from this supposedly 'highly-prized' position).
Although of course the vacation is still great, would I study for an MA TESOL now in order to try to get a Korean uni job? You'd have to be nuts |
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True or not?
Seoul National
| Quote: |
SNU USED TO BE the place to work. People were making great salaries (well above 4.0) for 12 contact hours (NO WRITING CLASSES before someone chimes in on the TRUE number of hours required), with housing free or supplemented (can't remember) and annual pay increases. THEN they cut wages, put in term limits, offered no pay increases and whatever else they did to drive out every single experienced teacher there.
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Unis have used illegal tactics for a while. Several unis, including SNU, have been sued successfully in recent years. ...
As for SNU, if you worked there you would be very shocked at how pathetic they are. |
Sad to say almost all of the top schools do stuff like . The cases above are NOT exceptions. That is what big famous Korean Universities do.
That is the point , They don't pay you much and worse they treat teachers worse than servants.
And you do much much more that your contact hours so much so that it makes the concept of contact hour largely irrelevant.
This is the way it is: Generally speaking there are three types of situations if you work for a Korean university
A ) A name university where you have to work until you are sick , get pushed around and your life is miserable cause you are nothing but a servant. If you choose to work at one it is like being sick for 8 months of the year. You might get sick for real if you work for one. They don't really pay that much either.
OR
B ) A university where you don't earn much at all . This actually is an okay option IF you don't really need money or if you have an F visa and the University is non malicious and non Psychotic
OR
C ) Both A & B
You can avoid this IF you have a PHD and it is also true that working in Korea is better than Wall Mart but for those just getting out of college, but basically the in between between those two extremes in Korea is rapidly disappearing if it isn't already gone.
Yes you can pretty much write off teaching in Korea if you need a salary any greater that what is needed to support a single person unless one has a PHD. |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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Not really on topic. First off, ALL above-the-table jobs entail deductions from one's salary. This is not exclusive to u jobs.
And, as I wrote, you can stay put OR move on up. There ARE jobs that do pay more the longer you're there. You give examples of a couple of the less attractive options.
AND, as I also wrote, after seeing a similar post from another contributor, I have never seen nor heard of an F-series visa holder getting canned for working outside of the the university.
I'm sure that the people out there who have decent u jobs are just fine with all the nay saying. Heck, it potentially disuades people from applying, and, as other posters have inclined, the best jobs are usually found via connections and word of mouth.
Not saying that people shouldn't go into any employment with their eyes wide open, just that it's not always as abismal as you would have everyone believe. |
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