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Mashimaro
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: location, location
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 Posted: Sun May 23, 2004 9:54 pm Post subject: Who here wants to be treated like any other Korean? |
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For all the bit*ching and talk of discrimination against foreigners, who would happily become another face in the crowd and treated 'exactly' as other koreans are.
I for one am more than happy to be excused from many of the more difficult/frustrating parts of korean culture by virtue of being a waygook.
In a country of 50,000,000 I'm glad to be different, even if I am just another waygook 
I would hate to be expected to follow the confucian 'rules' etc. and the blanket expectations that are seemingly placed on koreans (pressure to get married, have children, wife stays home etc.)
I suppose my point is, before we jump to complain about being treated differently, ask yourself, would you really want to be treated the same?
If you want neither, what do you expect? |
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weatherman
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sun May 23, 2004 10:04 pm Post subject: Re: Who here wants to be treated like any other Korean? |
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| Mashimaro wrote: |
If you want neither, what do you expect? |
Yeah, it is good to not have to fallow the Korean way all the time, but when you have been here a long time, the Korean way becomes pretty much second nature and starts to feel familure and you want to do things the Korean way. I do hate the racism that comes along when it is presonal and not being citizen I cant have the same fiancial rights as other Koreans, which sucks but is understandable. And the whole confucian work place rules wouldn't be so bad, I got the same benefits as my Korean co-workes. As it is for me, it all seems like added work without sharing in on any work places bonuses. |
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bignate
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Location: Hell's Ditch
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| Posted: Sun May 23, 2004 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Mashimaro wrote: |
| I for one am more than happy to be excused from many of the more difficult/frustrating parts of korean culture by virtue of being a waygook. |
Yah, No doubt you can sit on the subway, drink a beer and no one will say anything: just sort of stare - but hey that happens all the time anyways.
Dak-Boki Ajummas always give you more on your plate and an extra O-Dang if ya smile at 'em.
OH Ya! If you want to you can even go down to Han-Gang Park, drink a bag full of Hite, Cass, Soju, and Hi-Chu. Then after you get board with that you can climb out onto one of the peirs, climb up as far as you can and dive into the river with your idiot freinds until the sun comes up. And when the security guard gives ya shit, you just calmly explain to him that you are a waygook and he will turn around, never to be seen again.
Not that I have ever done such a thing...  |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Sun May 23, 2004 10:09 pm Post subject: Re: Who here wants to be treated like any other Korean? |
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| Mashimaro wrote: |
| If you want neither, what do you expect? |
How 'bout being treated as a fellow human being? |
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kangnamdragon
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Kangnam, Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Sun May 23, 2004 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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I expect to be treated like a Korean when I want, and treated like a foreigner when I want. Luckily, I usually get my way. I can get the best of both worlds.  |
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candu
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun May 23, 2004 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| It is good to remind oneself that Korea tends to be just as unfair a place for locals as it is for foreigners. Puts things in perspective. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun May 23, 2004 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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Mashimoro-Dogbert exchange:
| Quote: |
Mashimaro wrote:
If you want neither, what do you expect?
How 'bout being treated as a fellow human being? |
But how we treat a "fellow human being" is going to depend on what culture we are from, and whether or not we consider that fellow human being to be answerable to the same cultural norms as we are. For example, if a Korean human being who happens to be female lights up a smoke on a public street, her fellow human beings will take it upon themselves to lecture her on the impropriety of what she is doing. But a western human being who happens to be female might be cut a bit of slack if she lights up a smoke on a public street in Korea, because the Koreans think oh well, she's a way-gook, that's what they do.
If you want everyone to be treated equally, then the host culture will likely just say "fine, all human beings in Korea will be treated the way Korean human beings are". I think the OP was asking if this is really the type of equality that we want. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Sun May 23, 2004 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
Mashimoro-Dogbert exchange:
| Quote: |
Mashimaro wrote:
If you want neither, what do you expect?
How 'bout being treated as a fellow human being? |
But how we treat a "fellow human being" is going to depend on what culture we are from, and whether or not we consider that fellow human being to be answerable to the same cultural norms as we are. For example, if a Korean human being who happens to be female lights up a smoke on a public street, her fellow human beings will take it upon themselves to lecture her on the impropriety of what she is doing. But a western human being who happens to be female might be cut a bit of slack if she lights up a smoke on a public street in Korea, because the Koreans think oh well, she's a way-gook, that's what they do.
If you want everyone to be treated equally, then the host culture will likely just say "fine, all human beings in Korea will be treated the way Korean human beings are". I think the OP was asking if this is really the type of equality that we want. |
I misspoke. I'll try again.
How about looking at me as a fellow human being, rather than as a prettily-colored fish inside an aquarium or a potentially dangerous animal that has somehow escaped from the zoo. |
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Mashimaro
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: location, location
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| dogbert wrote: |
How about looking at me as a fellow human being, rather than as a prettily-colored fish inside an aquarium. |
I'm not saying I agree with your analogy...
BUT IF it were true..
Wouldn't you rather be a prettily coloured fish than a poo brown fish unnoticed amongst the masses. If not you are less shallow than I am and I congratulate you if it is true. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| a prettily-colored fish inside an aquarium or a potentially dangerous animal that has somehow escaped from the zoo. |
Interesting hyperboles. I think what you're saying is that Koreans regard us as either a) exotic, or b) dangerous. But is there an upside to this?
First, the exotic thing. If Koreans saw us as being just as average run-of-the-mill as they view each other, then it's not likely that we would be paid a lump salary for teaching English at a hagwon, while the Korean teachers are getting paid per student and have to compete against one another for those students(I'm assuming that all hagwons operate like my own). Would you want to be treated exactly as a Korean teacher is treated?
Second, dangerous. This gets back to my original smoking example. Because the average Kim-on-the-street thinks of us as having just climbed down from the trees, they don't hold us to the same standards as they do members of the tribe. If we forget to bow at the proper time or use the correct form when addressing an authority figure, 9 times out of 10 it's not going to become a huge, career-threatening issue. Koreans who neglect the social niceties are not likely to be treated with such kid gloves.
I guess what I'm saying is that the insularity and xenophobia of Korean society, much lamented on this board, does in fact work to our advantage in many instances. And if we are going to be completely honest about things, we should admit this. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| Quote: |
| a prettily-colored fish inside an aquarium or a potentially dangerous animal that has somehow escaped from the zoo. |
Interesting hyperboles. I think what you're saying is that Koreans regard us as either a) exotic, or b) dangerous. But is there an upside to this?
First, the exotic thing. If Koreans saw us as being just as average run-of-the-mill as they view each other, then it's not likely that we would be paid a lump salary for teaching English at a hagwon, while the Korean teachers are getting paid per student and have to compete against one another for those students(I'm assuming that all hagwons operate like my own). Would you want to be treated exactly as a Korean teacher is treated?
Second, dangerous. This gets back to my original smoking example. Because the average Kim-on-the-street thinks of us as having just climbed down from the trees, they don't hold us to the same standards as they do members of the tribe. If we forget to bow at the proper time or use the correct form when addressing an authority figure, 9 times out of 10 it's not going to become a huge, career-threatening issue. Koreans who neglect the social niceties are not likely to be treated with such kid gloves.
I guess what I'm saying is that the insularity and xenophobia of Korean society, much lamented on this board, does in fact work to our advantage in many instances. And if we are going to be completely honest about things, we should admit this. |
I think I make a distinction between "how Koreans see us" and "how Koreans treat us" that others in the thread are not making. My bad, since the original point has to do with treatment. Carry on.
[Edit] Why did you delete your post, OTOH? |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 9:38 am Post subject: yes |
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I am a high paid circus clown/zoo exhibit/babysitter.
I'd like the best of both worlds, as anyone would. |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
. . . how we treat a "fellow human being" is going to depend on what culture we are from, and whether or not we consider that fellow human being to be answerable to the same cultural norms as we are. For example, if a Korean human being who happens to be female lights up a smoke on a public street, her fellow human beings will take it upon themselves to lecture her on the impropriety of what she is doing. But a western human being who happens to be female might be cut a bit of slack if she lights up a smoke on a public street in Korea, because the Koreans think oh well, she's a way-gook, that's what they do.
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In my experience, the female waygooks here have to follow a higher moral code than the Korean girls, at least part of the time- to combat the stereotypes. I've gotten lecttured for not following outdated Korean cultural norms many times. ( according to Korean friends the norms were outdated) |
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katydid
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Location: Here kitty kitty kitty...
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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Pep's on to something. There are clothes that are sold in Korea here to Koreans that most foreign females could NOT wear on the street without getting unwanted negative attention. I'm talking about things like short shorts and skirts, and apparently on a more ridiculous level, sleeveless shirts and tank tops.
Apparently it's OK for Korean girls to show off something as sexy as their upper arm because they aren't as loose as us Western women.
To further answer the question, I think it's kind of nice, kind of unnerving when I go into a store and I gert service because I am foreign. I'm damn happy that I do not have to hear about being unmarried (and so close to 30!!  ) from my family...my dad, thankfully is rather laissez-faire about that.
But it'd be rather interesting to maybe be Korean for a week here...be able to understand the news and follow their line of thinking for a week, just to see how it went, to participate in the work culture and the social culture just for a week, then go back to being a disinterested foreign party. |
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kangnamdragon
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Kangnam, Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| katydid wrote: |
. I'm damn happy that I do not have to hear about being unmarried (and so close to 30!! ) from my family...my dad, thankfully is rather laissez-faire about that.
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Hey, why aren't you married yet   |
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