| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
|
 Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 4:55 pm Post subject: Mid Contract Changes |
 |
|
Should all middle of the contract changes be approved by both parties? The changes are minor at this time but shouldn't they be approved by all parties that signed the original contract? Apparently, being told of the changes is all right and sufficient with the administration.
After the fact notification of contract changes, how do you feel about this? The administration can do this but can I?
Last edited by Real Reality on Wed May 26, 2004 4:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
kangnamdragon
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Kangnam, Seoul, Korea
|
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 4:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Of course they are not "legal" unless approved by both parties. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 4:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The administration seems to think they are legal. "It is all right. Don't worry."
Can I make arbitrary changes to the contract? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kangnamdragon
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Kangnam, Seoul, Korea
|
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 5:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Neither of you can. What was the change? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 5:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| It relates to overtime pay and hours. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kangnamdragon
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Kangnam, Seoul, Korea
|
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 5:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| That may change if the Korean law is different from the contract. I believe a change in Korean law would override the contract. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 5:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It is the idea of:
After the fact notification of contract changes. The administration can do this but can I? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kangnamdragon
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Kangnam, Seoul, Korea
|
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 5:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Real Reality wrote: |
It is the idea of:
After the fact notification of contract changes. The administration can do this but can I? |
No, and I think you already know the answer to that.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
|
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 5:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Contracts are understood differently in Korea than back home. The sooner one sees it as secondary to the relationship developed with the employer, and as a bit fluid or flexible if needs change, then the sooner one invests one's energies where it counts the most: in developing a good relationship, smoothing over the bumps, and ensuring that the needs of both sides are met, even where they change.
And no, the relationship is not between social equals, despite what your upbringing has told you. That shouldn't stop you from tactfully communicating your basic needs and ensuring that they are met. If the changes are minor, then there's no real problem, other than one's home-grown sense of the significance of a contract and the proper conduct of parties to it.
Forget about the "should" and "shouldn't".
Get over it, with a smile, and wait for something that fails to meet your basic needs before bringing it up, and do so then with a smile too. There's no need to get indignant or righteous with a Korean businessman of good faith but changing needs. Make the best of it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 5:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It seems they are meeting their "basic needs" but not necessarily meeting my needs.
"Basic Needs?" What are basic needs?
Are you a "missionary teacher?" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
snufalufagus
Joined: 10 May 2004
|
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 5:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Legally speaking a contract is a contract, I'm sure you can find an article that defines what contracts and post it here for everyone to ignore.
Nobody can change a contract without permission and approval of both parties. What do you think a contract is ?! No, in Korea they are hardly the documents you expect; but technically speaking it cannot be violated without approval AND SIGNING of a new contract defining the changes.
And your "needs" ... they are not relevant. Your contract specificies what you get and the theory of human needs, expectations, wants, desires, "needs" are only secondary in the realm of Korea and humane treatment and expectations of lifestyle. If you don't like the contract or how you're being treated, bring it up with your employer, and if you're unhappy with response or what you receive in reply, then you are welcome to resign. Make sure you document and claim why you are quitting in reference to your contract.
Otherwise, all jobs are like that, that's life and you either live with it or find a new place to be and hope it works out. It's a fact of work-life.
That's really how it is ... that's the REAL REALITY of it |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
|
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 5:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Real Reality wrote: |
"Basic Needs?" What are basic needs?
Are you a "missionary teacher?" |
That's a laugh. I certainly am not the one trying to import Western contract morality into the Korean small business context.
And basic needs is a term I picked up from my Mediation courses in Canada: people often are unaware of what they need versus what they want. As Fisher and Ury state in their famous work on negotiation Getting to Yes, one would be well served to separate one's basic needs from one's wants.
Yes, "technically" a contract is to be honoured, as it is elsewhere. But re-negotiating the terms of a contract, from a position of power, is also often done elsewhere, when the costs of litigation or abandonment of the contract are not worthwhile options.
And in Korea there are cultural differences you can condemn en masse, if you want to become a social activist for Korean reforms or a disgruntled employee whining in the wind.
Otherwise, pick and choose your battles, only, don't think of them as "battles" but as discussions of basic needs.
IMO. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 6:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The labor-management relationship remains as one of the major factors holding back the Korean economy. The latest National Competitiveness Report of the International Institute for Management Development (IMD) placed labor-management relations in Korea near the bottom among all comparable countries.
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/biz/200405/kt2004052620274411860.htm
According to the IMD's survey in 2002, the state of competitiveness of labor-management relations in Korea ranked 47th among 49 countries. In the case of some enterprises, dialogue between the labor and management was insufficient and employers failed to secure full confidence from workers in terms of management transparency.
http://www.fki.or.kr/letter/issue/0402/publisher.asp |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
|
| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 7:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| VanIslander wrote: |
| Real Reality wrote: |
"Basic Needs?" What are basic needs?
Are you a "missionary teacher?" |
That's a laugh. I certainly am not the one trying to import Western contract morality into the Korean small business context.
And basic needs is a term I picked up from my Mediation courses in Canada: people often are unaware of what they need versus what they want. As Fisher and Ury state in their famous work on negotiation Getting to Yes, one would be well served to separate one's basic needs from one's wants.
Yes, "technically" a contract is to be honoured, as it is elsewhere. But re-negotiating the terms of a contract, from a position of power, is also often done elsewhere, when the costs of litigation or abandonment of the contract are not worthwhile options.
And in Korea there are cultural differences you can condemn en masse, if you want to become a social activist for Korean reforms or a disgruntled employee whining in the wind.
Otherwise, pick and choose your battles, only, don't think of them as "battles" but as discussions of basic needs.
IMO. |
I would diregard this man's advice. He claimed in another thread that late pay was common, and reguarly accepted by Korean employees. I can only assume he is in troll mode here. Westerners aren't the only people who get sick of the wonjangnim's/sajangnim's attempts to alter contracts after they have been signed. Korean employees don't like it either. It's not a Korean cultural issue, it's a crooked businessman issue. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
|
| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 3:24 pm Post subject: changes |
|
|
I had the same thing happen at my hogwan......it took two months of stress headaches and then a threat to leave before they agreed that I would get paid for the extra time I worked.
I believe the problem stemmed from early on where they made some minor changes to my schedule violating my contract and I took it in stride and decided to be flexible.
If you give your owner/director an inch they will take a mile and be surprised when you tell them NO 
about vanislander
| Quote: |
| I would diregard this man's advice |
Gwangjuboy hit it right on the nose...troll troll troll |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
