Korean Job Discussion Forums

Mashimaro · Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: location, location

Do you know anything about confucianism? 99% percent of posters here live in Korea but I'm guessing very few know much about it (and many nothing at all)

In fact most people have probably stopped reading already.

I don't know much about it myself, but I do realise that Korea is the most confucian society in the world and as such impacts hugely on korean society. It helps explain why koreans never look behind them to see if the door is slamming in someone's face, queue jumping etc. etc.

If you are continuosly asking why koreans do this or that, or why they think a certain way, looking into confucianism 'may' provide some answers. You may think it is sexist, elitist, downright stupid, but hey it's the way things are and we may as well get used to it.

Crois · Posted: Sat May 29, 2004 5:00 pm Post subject:

look after yourself, friends and family. Everypne else doesnt matter.

kiwiboy_nz_99 · Joined: 05 Jul 2003 Location: ...Enlightenment...

Confucianism emphasises five "Golden Relationships" that must be maintained, husband and wife, father and son, elder brother and younger brother ( expanded to take in elder and younger person in general ), ruler and subject, friend and friend. Only the friend and friend relationship is horizontal or non-heirachical. This is why Korean bosses find it so hard to take on suggestions from workers, and why Korean's find it strange to have a "friend" that is more than 2 years older or younger.

captain kirk · Joined: 29 Jan 2003

I remember there was a poster on here awhile ago saying that friends or colleages (or whatever) of his were visiting from Saudi Arabia and they all commented that Koreans seem like robots! That they'd never seen people act so much like robots! Smile

Possibly the rigidity of Koreans stems from this most important influence, Confucianism. What else but an 'ism' could motivate people to behave in a rigid manner to such excess? So uptight that alcoholism and 'grand open' dancing girls are a kind of outlet valve to prevent massive blowup. Oh, and horking lugers into paper cups in the pcbang where I'm at is another outlet Wink

jajdude · Joined: 18 Jan 2003

I guess Confucianism is like a religion, an organized bunch of beliefs people eat up and follow like sheep, though I guess they don't really have much choice living in a land where it is more heavily enforced than laws. I personally think it's an enormous pile of crap, but that changes nothing and only leads to my own bitterness at times. Exclamation

mithridates · Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 5:43 am Post subject:

I've read the analects of Confucius a few times in the original Chinese plus �߿� and ��, whatever their English titles might be...haven't gotten around to �� (Mencius) because I much prefer Taoism and �� (Zhuang-tsu?) takes a lot longer to read than any of the other books.
The golden rule first appears in the analects of Confucius for those who don't know....

here it is:

(15:16)
�ڰ� ��Ͼ��̰��ȣ �ڿб⼭ȣ ��Һҿ�
��: �� ʦ��̱�, ��, �� þ��
ڨ��̴϶�.

�ؼ�: �ڰ�� "�� ν� �� ֽ��ϱ�?"�ϰ� ��, ��ڲ�� "�װ�� (��)�� ̴�. �� ϱ� �� Ű�� ̴϶�."�� ϼ̴�.

�ּ�: ��Ͼ�(��):�� . ��(��). �ۼ�(��):��(��)�� (��)�� ̷�� ȸ�ǹ��(�� )��, �� ִ� ��.

mithridates · Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 5:44 am Post subject:

Also, I was thinking of starting a thread on this very subject yesterday morning. Mashimaro, haven't we linked minds before as well?

jajdude · Joined: 18 Jan 2003

I have read the opinion once or twice before by some intelligent Chinese people that Confucius was quite an arsehole actually, mysogynistic and cloistered in thought (if that is the right word?) Anyway, they said he was a jerk. I believe it. Education and family are good. But bowing to elders solely because they are older is nonsense. The elder may be a major idiot but one still has to feign respect? I hate this crap. Glad it aint part of my deal.

mithridates · Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 7:22 am Post subject:

In defence of Confucius, he like a lot of other famous thinkers and spiritual leaders, has had a bad rep by people who like to use religion to their own ends. That's not just common to Europe.

mithridates · Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 7:32 am Post subject:

The analects is also full of good stuff like this:

��4-17��أ��̸��; ̸��内��奡��

4:17 Confucius said: "When you see a good person, think of becoming like her/him. When you see someone not so good, reflect on your own weak points."

jajdude · Joined: 18 Jan 2003

mith,

How's the chinese going? Looks like it's coming along? Soon you'll be able to confound us all Very Happy

tomato · Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 4:31 pm Post subject:

Kiwiboy, thanks!

That explains a lot of things!
That explains why:

employers have hired me because of my ESL certification and then turned right around refused to listen when I tell them where ESL training conflicts with Korean tradition.

when I tell my boss that I would like to share my ideas at the next teachers' meeting, it goes in one ear and out the other

my previous boss couldn't listen to me even when she tried to. She repeatedly said, "I want to learn from you." I wrote her a nice long letter, telling her everything I knew about foreign language education. She went right on, teaching the same mundane way she always had.

I offered her a tour of my classroom, explaining the purpose of each picture book and each board game. It went in one ear and out the other.

Apparently, the notion of the all-knowing employer and the all-ignorant employee was so deeply engrained in her mind that she couldn't erase it even when she tried to.

She is like the fellow who didn't believe in astrology because he was a Gemini, and Geminis tend not to believe in astrology.

tomato · Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 4:37 pm Post subject:

Just one question:

How do we know it's Confucius' fault?

When there is a correlation, A could cause B, B could cause A, or a third cause C could cause both A and B.

In this case:
A= male chauvinism and sycophancy in Confucian thought
B= male chauvinism and sycophancy in modern Korean society

Of course, we can rule out B causing A, since A clearly preceded B.
But let C = male chauvinism and sycophancy in Confucius' time.
Didn't C exist?
Maybe male chauvinism and sycophancy in modern Korean society would be just as bad without Confucius!

kiwiboy_nz_99 · Joined: 05 Jul 2003 Location: ...Enlightenment...

kiwiboy_nz_99 · Joined: 05 Jul 2003 Location: ...Enlightenment...