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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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 Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Urban-Newfie exchange:
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TheUrbanMyth wrote:
Korea Newfie wrote:
TheUrbanMyth wrote:
Should racist thoughts be welcome? Suppose he had written the exact same post but replaced "Koreans" with "Jews" or "blacks"?
Racist thoughts, perhaps not. But the OP was/is trying to work through some things, and you're not getting it. You attack the manifestation of the problem, but have no thoughts on getting through the anger at its base. Further, your attempt to equate his post with anti-semitism is pathetic at best.
Actually you don't get it. If it is not acceptable to say the same things about "Jews" then it should not be acceptable to say the same things about "Koreans". Next time engage brain before fingers.
I don't get it? Okay, let's try this again. The issue is the feelings, not the rantings. As I said (and you even QUOTED ), racists comments are never welcome. Bad treatment causes bad feelings. This is true for any group. You're attacking his feelings, with no constructive solution as to how to work through them. He can't help how he feels.
Perhaps engaging empathy before insults would be more appropriate advice |
Korea Newfie:
You keep skirting around Urban Myth's main point, preferring, apparently, not to deal with its implications directly. Let's make it clear-cut:
STATEMENT A. I really don't like Jews. Umm, I know this goes against everything my country believes in, but I had a lot of bad experiences with Jews in Tel Aviv, and I really wish there were no Jews in the USA.
STATEMENT B: I really don't like Koreans. Umm, I know this goes against everything my country believes in, but I had a lot of bad experiences with Koreans in Korea, and I really wish there were no Koreans in the USA.
These statements are based on the language used in the OP. Now, two questions:
1. Is statement A racist?
2. Is statement A morally equivalent to statement B? |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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Man...Someone just HAS to come out of this as a racist or some people will lose sleep.
On the Other Hand...Statement A is racist. Statement B is equivalent to Statement A
BUT
The OP did not say "I don't like Koreans". The OP was upset because HER  country continues to extend courtesies to a country that does not extend the same courtesies to citizens of her country. She wishes her country would not let Koreans enter. Perhaps it would encourage Koreans to treat foreigners in Korea better. Now, Korea's stellar record of treatment of foreigners would be hard to improve, but I am sure that the Hub of Asia can bring this foreign-friendly utopia to such levels that would make you swoon.
Is Brazil's decision to fingerprint Americans (and Americans only) who enter Brazil racist, or a legitimate response to treatment of Brazilians entering the United States? Afterall, the people they are fingerprinting and delaying at the airport are not the ones who implemented the fingerprint policy in the US.
I just want to add that I don't like racism in any direction. I think it is wrong. However, I also live in the real world, not a perfect one. This country makes a lot of people hate it. Maybe the Koreans should start looking at themselves. It is not only English teachers that were ripped off by hakwon directors. This country and its citizens have a poor reputation world-wide. Maybe there is something to it. Instead of sticking your head in the sand...Face up to. Find the problem behavior, and correct it. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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I agree absolutely with the OP.
Trade and immigration issues should be dealt with on a strictly reciprocal basis now..its time koreans woke up to the idea of fair play and equality in world relations, not just a one way street. |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
I agree absolutely with the OP.
Trade and immigration issues should be dealt with on a strictly reciprocal basis now..its time koreans woke up to the idea of fair play and equality in world relations, not just a one way street. |
Rapier,
I couldn't have said it better. |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| indytrucks wrote: |
I can only imagine what the response would be if someone had gone into a "venting" session on what jerks he/she thinks [insert Western nationality here] are because he/she developed "negative feelings towards them, based on his/her time among them."
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Actually Rapier does this about his time in the British Isles, and it makes me laugh, it does seem to annoy some of my compatriates though. |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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quote="indytrucks"]I can only imagine what the response would be if someone had gone into a "venting" session on what jerks he/she thinks [insert Western nationality here] are because he/she developed "negative feelings towards them, based on his/her time among them."
He/She might even express remorse, acknowledging their own country's basis of acceptance.
 [/quote]
Actually Indy, I would. If some told me they didn't have a very nice view of Canadians based on a bad experience while visiting there, I would show empathy. I would ask what happened. I would see if there were anything I could do to rectify the situation (sometimes you can, sometimes you can't). I would even apologize.
I acknowledge that there are racist jerks in my country too. I would NOT say...'You are in Canada! You must do as Canadians do!', I would not call somebody a racist for complaining about poor treatment (that may very well have had ITS racist roots) they recieved in my country. I would not pass it off with 'You just don't understand our culture'. I would not say 'Yeah...well, if you don't like it, get out!'. Nor would I blame it on the Americans and Japanese.
I don't know what others would do, but but that's what I would do. |
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indytrucks
Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Location: The Shelf
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| diver wrote: |
The OP did not say "I don't like Koreans". |
True. Verbatim, no such words were uttered.
| yangban wrote: |
| And there they were - Koreans. My smile fell off my face like a cake that had hit a wall. |
| yangban wrote: |
parading around with their huge sunglasses and visors ... flipping their hair around and and they were on cell phones ... leaned on the side of the ship, arms hanging over the edge, smirking arrogantly ... their stupid peace signs with their fingers |
Diver,
What does the tone of the post sound like to you? I mean, c'mon. You strike me as an intelligent person. I don't think it's a stretch to make the connection.
What if, for the sake of argument, I did this ...
| indytrucks wrote: |
| And there they were - Canadians. My smile fell of my face like a cake that had hit a wall. |
| indytrucks wrote: |
| parading around with their backpacks with Canadian flags sewn on them ... talking loudly about maple syrup, poutine and Don Cherry ... ending every sentence with "Eh?" and wearing their stupid plaid lumberjack shirts ... desperately trying to prove they weren't American by quoting from "Bowling for Columbine" |
If I had done this, two things would have happened.
1) I'd be branded an anti-Canadian troll.
2) My dislike for Canadians would be evident for all to see, in spite of the fact "I don't like Canadians" was ever uttered from my mouth.
See what I'm talking about here? |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| indytrucks wrote: |
| diver wrote: |
The OP did not say "I don't like Koreans". |
True. Verbatim, no such words were uttered.
| yangban wrote: |
| And there they were - Koreans. My smile fell off my face like a cake that had hit a wall. |
| yangban wrote: |
parading around with their huge sunglasses and visors ... flipping their hair around and and they were on cell phones ... leaned on the side of the ship, arms hanging over the edge, smirking arrogantly ... their stupid peace signs with their fingers |
Diver,
What does the tone of the post sound like to you? I mean, c'mon. You strike me as an intelligent person. I don't think it's a stretch to make the connection.
What if, for the sake of argument, I did this ...
| indytrucks wrote: |
| And there they were - Canadians. My smile fell of my face like a cake that had hit a wall. |
| indytrucks wrote: |
| parading around with their backpacks with Canadian flags sewn on them ... talking loudly about maple syrup, poutine and Don Cherry ... ending every sentence with "Eh?" and wearing their stupid plaid lumberjack shirts ... desperately trying to prove they weren't American by quoting from "Bowling for Columbine" |
If I had done this, two things would have happened.
1) I'd be branded an anti-Canadian troll.
2) My dislike for Canadians would be evident for all to see, in spite of the fact "I don't like Canadians" was ever uttered from my mouth.
See what I'm talking about here? |
Well, We've been over it before in this thread. I think I made a mistake by trying to guess the true meaining of what the OP meant. My posts and opinions are based on MY interpretation of the OP.
I think the behavior he quoted was a trigger, and not the reason she dislikes Koreans. The part about 'The first Korean I could admit I was American to, without suffering the consequences', and a few other hints suggest that there is much more to their opinion/feelings than what many here are saying. If that were it, if the OP disliked Koreans simply because of the way they 'flipped their hair' and 'talked on cell phones' I would agree with everyone that thought it was racist.
In your example of Canadians, I would also think you were beiong an anti-Canadian troll. But if you went further, and explaned a little bit more about your feelings, I may have interpreted your venting the same way. That you had been treated badly by Canadians at some point. Then, even as a Canadian, I might think you have a legitimate beef. In fact, the way some Canadians on this board feel about Americans, and some of things I have seen and heard Canadians say about Canadians (including some members of our government), I would have to say...you DO have a beef. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:11 am Post subject: |
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| Actually I think the O.P is a classic- funny and lyrical. we need more well-written stories like this. |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| I myself have serious complaints about Korean culture and the attitude to foreigners here. However the tone of the op is personal and partial and does not invite me to take it seriously. |
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emailandrewnow
Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:47 am Post subject: Korean peadophile? (Did I spell it right?) |
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I met a Korean guy in Saigon (that's in Vietnam, genius) who is a comedian from NBC...he was getting drunk on beer and smuggled-in Soju, and couldn't keep his hands off this mentally handicapped girl who must've been about 13. He insisted that she was his "Vietnam younger sister", but I don't know. I was sitting next to him, chatting in English, and it just got wierder and wierder...people around us started noticing how much he was touching her, and saying things to him about it...but I left so I have no idea what happened or if he really was a peadophile...
I just thought I'd share this with you... |
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peemil
Joined: 09 Feb 2003
Location: Koowoompa
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Korean expatriates in the Philippines pointed out that "As far as the incidents and accidents involving Koreans are concerned, there are many cases of unseeming behavior by Koreans becoming problems."
Consul General Jo Hui-yong said Wednesday, "the 'Korean Wave Craze' is spreading in Southeast Asia, but we mustn't allow some thoughtless tourists to ruin Korea's entire image." Expressing concern, he said, "Not just on the golf course, but at tourist sites, airports, and other places, incidents causing friction between Koreans and locals are continuing to occur."
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There's a suprise... Seen enough Korans around the world to know that they are just as awful and rude in other peoples countries as they are in their own. |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: Korean peadophile? (Did I spell it right?) |
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| emailandrewnow wrote: |
I met a Korean guy in Saigon (that's in Vietnam, genius) who is a comedian from NBC...he was getting drunk on beer and smuggled-in Soju, and couldn't keep his hands off this mentally handicapped girl who must've been about 13. He insisted that she was his "Vietnam younger sister", but I don't know. I was sitting next to him, chatting in English, and it just got wierder and wierder...people around us started noticing how much he was touching her, and saying things to him about it...but I left so I have no idea what happened or if he really was a peadophile...
I just thought I'd share this with you... |
I've been to HCMC too, and noticed too how much sex tourism there is there, lots of very young girls and in my experience, mostly Australian men.
And in North Africa, I noticed lots of European men with African adolescent boys.
Perverts everywhere sadly. I don't think it is something Koreans are exempt from.
I just thought I'd share that with you. |
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