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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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 Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 7:10 am Post subject: |
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I don't think it's a double standard. To their eyes, any Korean guy who is staying here for a short period, without a stable job, advocating free sex is a irresponsible human being to be avoided at all costs. I would call it being too cautious, too defensive.
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I have a stable job at a good university, I have been here almost four years with no plan to leave, and I don't advocate free sex. These girls didn't know that of course, and neither did they know anything to the contrary. They didn't know anything other than that I was a foriegner, and that, I think, is the crux of the matter. |
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sid
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Location: Berkshire, England
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| I'm pretty sure wae-gook refers to all non-Koreans and not to any particular 'race'..... so xenophobia is a more accurate term when talking about those ignorant/wrong-headed feelings or assumptions about 'wae-gookin' that we may (occasionally?) hear from Koreans. I know it feels good to be all noble and self-righteous decrying 'yet another example of Korean racism', but the word ought to be used more carefully I feel. |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| sid wrote: |
| I'm pretty sure wae-gook refers to all non-Koreans and not to any particular 'race'..... so xenophobia is a more accurate term when talking about those ignorant/wrong-headed feelings or assumptions about 'wae-gookin' that we may (occasionally?) hear from Koreans. I know it feels good to be all noble and self-righteous decrying 'yet another example of Korean racism', but the word ought to be used more carefully I feel. |
Because hating all foreigners instead of one particular group of foreigners is less offensive? |
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indiercj
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
| Quote: |
I don't think it's a double standard. To their eyes, any Korean guy who is staying here for a short period, without a stable job, advocating free sex is a irresponsible human being to be avoided at all costs. I would call it being too cautious, too defensive.
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I have a stable job at a good university, I have been here almost four years with no plan to leave, and I don't advocate free sex. These girls didn't know that of course, and neither did they know anything to the contrary. They didn't know anything other than that I was a foriegner, and that, I think, is the crux of the matter. |
That's exactly what I thought when I first heard about my girl friend's friends' comment. I graduated SNU, I had a job in a public company(somehow they seem to prefer more solid positions than those jobs on contract that are to be renewed annualy), I am Korean. But I am still dating her for 8 years without marriage, so... Well... I really have nothing more to say. |
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Blind Willie
Joined: 05 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:11 am Post subject: Re: Is this racism? |
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| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
Is it? Cause I don't know what racism is any more, been here too long, got all confused between cultural differences and racism. Anyway ...
Girl I'm seeing informs me that when she told her friends she was seeing a foreigner thier collective response ( every single one ) was to say "You must stop seeing him immediately, he's a foreigner".
So, what is this? |
Racism: "You must stop seeing him immediately, he's a dirty white-bread, blue-eyed devil, cracker, mother-fucker!"
Stereotyping based on their ignorance about what a fine upstanding guy you are: "You must stop seeing him immediately, he's a foreigner"
Korean Girl fishing to see how serious you are: "Girl I'm seeing informs me that when she told her friends she was seeing a foreigner thier collective response ( every single one ) was to say "You must stop seeing him immediately, he's a foreigner". |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| ThisCharmingMan wrote: |
I've got a question:
Heard about a man who was half asian/half white and he started dating a asian woman back in the states.He eventually wanted to marry her but he was rejected.Why?Something to do with her buying into the whole myth of white blood good and all colored blood bad(she wanted to marry a white guy so her children would have the maximum percentage of white blood).Now, was she racist?If so, to whom?...A side question:if her half asian/white child wanted to have an incestuous affair and make a child, then based on her past affair, should she reject her child axiomatically? |
I'll take you up on your challenge.
Yes, she sure is racist. She doesn't want to be with a guy because he isn't "white" enough. I think that qualifies are racism. I suppose you were expecting someone to say she wasn't being racist because she was Asian??
| Quote: |
| A side question:if her half asian/white child wanted to have an incestuous affair and make a child, then based on her past affair, should she reject her child axiomatically? |
I have no idea what you are asking. Were you drunk when you wrote this? |
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Falstaff
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Location: Ansan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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I'm going to have to back Sid on this one. To answer the OP's question, no, it's not racism, it's xenophobia. If the complaint had been "Don't date him because he's white (or black, or any racial ethnicity)" that would be racism because the discrimination is based on race. Because the complaint is he's a "foreigner", that would be xenophobia.
Now since Korea is such a homogenous society, the line here can be blurry since almost every foreigner is also of a different ethnicity. In N. America/Europe and other heterogenous socities, the line beteween racism and xenophobia is more clear.
Either way it's sad and wrong. I guess Dr. King's dream of people "being judged by the content of their character rather than the color of his skin" hasn't been realized in Korea.
Then again, where has it been realized? |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Um...I think that xenophobia is a form of racism, isn't it? |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| indiercj wrote: |
| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
| Quote: |
I don't think it's a double standard. To their eyes, any Korean guy who is staying here for a short period, without a stable job, advocating free sex is a irresponsible human being to be avoided at all costs. I would call it being too cautious, too defensive.
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I have a stable job at a good university, I have been here almost four years with no plan to leave, and I don't advocate free sex. These girls didn't know that of course, and neither did they know anything to the contrary. They didn't know anything other than that I was a foriegner, and that, I think, is the crux of the matter. |
That's exactly what I thought when I first heard about my girl friend's friends' comment. I graduated SNU, I had a job in a public company(somehow they seem to prefer more solid positions than those jobs on contract that are to be renewed annualy), I am Korean. But I am still dating her for 8 years without marriage, so... Well... I really have nothing more to say. |
How is it that your blog isn't blocked? |
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ThisCharmingMan
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Alyallen wrote: |
| ThisCharmingMan wrote: |
I've got a question:
Heard about a man who was half asian/half white and he started dating a asian woman back in the states.He eventually wanted to marry her but he was rejected.Why?Something to do with her buying into the whole myth of white blood good and all colored blood bad(she wanted to marry a white guy so her children would have the maximum percentage of white blood).Now, was she racist?If so, to whom?...A side question:if her half asian/white child wanted to have an incestuous affair and make a child, then based on her past affair, should she reject her child axiomatically? |
I'll take you up on your challenge.
Yes, she sure is racist. She doesn't want to be with a guy because he isn't "white" enough. I think that qualifies are racism. I suppose you were expecting someone to say she wasn't being racist because she was Asian?? |
Thanks for having the balls to take me up on the challenge.So if she doesn't want to take the guy because he's not "white" enough, then she is discriminating on his "asian" side.Easy enough to understand:we can have one particular asian group having racist beliefs against another asian group.But what I didn't mention before was his half asian roots were the same as her whole asian roots:half Japanese to her whole Japanese.So, was she racist against herself or her own "people"?
| Alyallen wrote: |
| ThisCharmingMan wrote: |
| A side question:if her half asian/white child wanted to have an incestuous affair and make a child, then based on her past affair, should she reject her child axiomatically? |
I have no idea what you are asking. Were you drunk when you wrote this? |
No, I wasn't drunk!You know extactly what I'm talking about.  |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Korean Girl fishing to see how serious you are: "Girl I'm seeing informs me that when she told her friends she was seeing a foreigner thier collective response ( every single one ) was to say "You must stop seeing him immediately, he's a foreigner". |
Good shot, but I ain't buying it ... |
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Harin
Joined: 03 May 2004
Location: Garden of Eden
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:34 am Post subject: |
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kiwiboy, you mentioned your current gf dated foreigners prior to dating you. Maybe, those girls are trying to give their two cents on you based on your gf's past dating history or experiences. Girlfriends do that for each other all the time; exchange dating tips/advices.
If you go steady with her and maintain a healthy relationship, I am sure her girlfriends change their viewpoint on dating a foreigner. My girlfriends did. They now think it is ok to date a foreigner and even have asked me to see if I know any good boy like mine.
Best wishes. |
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Falstaff
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Location: Ansan
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| diver wrote: |
| Um...I think that xenophobia is a form of racism, isn't it? |
Not always. I'm from the southern United States, and some of my family still lives in an earlier time. I have been told before that I better not marry "a damn Yankee". That would be a form of xenophobia that isn't racist.
If I decided I was only going to date other Americans, and refused to date a white Canadian, but would date a black woman born in the States, that wouldn't be racist. It would be xenophobic.
As I said earlier, with Korea, xenophobia is almost always racist because Koreans are ethnically, well, Korean. Therefore disliking foreigners is almost always disliking others of a different race. Americans can be white, black, Latina, Arab, et al. Disliking foreigners can be separate from disliking a race much easier for an American.
What I would be interested to know is if the friends in the OPs original questions would date a man of Korean ethnicity who was born and raised outside of Korea. If they would, then I would say racism. If they wouldn't, xenophobia.
| Quote: |
| Because hating all foreigners instead of one particular group of foreigners is less offensive? |
Hatred is hatred, whatever the reason. And hatred sucks. |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| ThisCharmingMan wrote: |
| Alyallen wrote: |
| ThisCharmingMan wrote: |
I've got a question:
Heard about a man who was half asian/half white and he started dating a asian woman back in the states.He eventually wanted to marry her but he was rejected.Why?Something to do with her buying into the whole myth of white blood good and all colored blood bad(she wanted to marry a white guy so her children would have the maximum percentage of white blood).Now, was she racist?If so, to whom?...A side question:if her half asian/white child wanted to have an incestuous affair and make a child, then based on her past affair, should she reject her child axiomatically? |
I'll take you up on your challenge.
Yes, she sure is racist. She doesn't want to be with a guy because he isn't "white" enough. I think that qualifies are racism. I suppose you were expecting someone to say she wasn't being racist because she was Asian?? |
Thanks for having the balls to take me up on the challenge.So if she doesn't want to take the guy because he's not "white" enough, then she is discriminating on his "asian" side.Easy enough to understand:we can have one particular asian group having racist beliefs against another asian group.But what I didn't mention before was his half asian roots were the same as her whole asian roots:half Japanese to her whole Japanese.So, was she racist against herself or her own "people"?
| Alyallen wrote: |
| ThisCharmingMan wrote: |
| A side question:if her half asian/white child wanted to have an incestuous affair and make a child, then based on her past affair, should she reject her child axiomatically? |
I have no idea what you are asking. Were you drunk when you wrote this? |
No, I wasn't drunk!You know extactly what I'm talking about. |
Let's suppose she is Japanese like your example, then yes she is being racist against her people and showing some real self-hate on top of it. It is hardly an original issue. "Oh...I can't marry you. You are too Black", that would be a comment from one Black person to another that I would think is racist. SO what's the point of this exercise of "Guess if that's racist?"
Oh and no...I still have no clue what you are talking about.  |
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ThisCharmingMan
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| I have a hard time believing it is possible to be racist against your own race.Sure it fits to a letter T that everything she might believe to make choices follows a rascist indoctrination, but for some reason it seems to fail at the last step.It is this "something" that I am questioning-whether it is personal autonomy and identity that prevents it.And I believe as you said before, it is something that is more along the lines of self-hate, but without the artifacts of genuine racism.By the way, did you ever meet a white person who was a rascist against "whites"?I also think in a semi-intervening response to the OP, it is quite easy to label something racist when it is catagorical, but when when it fails outside the box it gets much harder.Things are much more complex than black and white. |
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