|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Is it ok to use a fake degree to gain employment here? |
| Sure, hell I have a fake degree myself! |
|
4% |
[ 6 ] |
| Yeah, why not? |
|
4% |
[ 6 ] |
| No, that is illegal and wrong. |
|
69% |
[ 86 ] |
| I truly dont care one way or the other. |
|
20% |
[ 26 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 124 |
|
| Author |
Message |
kangnamdragon
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Kangnam, Seoul, Korea
|
 Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 4:29 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
It is illegal for anyone to teach at a hagwon without a degree. Even if you have an F4 visa or are Korean, you must have a degree.
It is wrong to break the law. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
rok_the-boat
Joined: 24 Jan 2004
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 4:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| You also need to think about why they require degrees - it's not only about education - they want to keep out eveyone else. Think about it - what if - "You can't come the the US unless you have a degree." That would be intended to keep out the 'undesirables' ... Korea want's educated persons, those that it perceives can contribute to Korea. Don't see many 'boat people' around here ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 6:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| rok_the-boat wrote: |
| You also need to think about why they require degrees - it's not only about education - they want to keep out eveyone else. Think about it - what if - "You can't come the the US unless you have a degree." That would be intended to keep out the 'undesirables' ... Korea want's educated persons, those that it perceives can contribute to Korea. Don't see many 'boat people' around here ... |
"Boat people", that being anyone from a poor country, working in Korea outnumber us English teachers about 20 to 1. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hardy Boy
Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Location: I live in a shoe. Made in B.C., Northern Vancouver Island
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 6:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I know two guys in Korea who don't have university degrees. One seems like a slacker and the other an eager beaver. They both work in hogwans, like Korea and smile a lot.
| schwa wrote: |
| if someone fakes their way into the system & does the job well, I'd never call them down. |
Neither would I. And I think a hogwan couldn't care less.
| Gord wrote: |
| ...the brightest guy I know at English writing only has a year of college..., He had published works around the world and can write better than pretty much everyone here (including myself), yet cannot work in Korea teaching (if he wanted to) because he lacks a degree. Is that fair? |
Minimum standards are never perfect, and requiring a college degree is a straightforward and enforceable way of ensuring a relatively high level of English on average. Of course there will be exceptions.
| Gord wrote: |
| Requiring a degree is a rather new thing... Wouldn't a better solution be a test? That way everyone who can pass the test is known to be on the same playing field in terms of minimal skill? |
A test would introduce mountains of extra bureaucracy and greater opportunities for cunning behaviour. Who'd administer the test? Where? When? Who'd supervise it?
| prosodic wrote: |
My concern is the reputation of foreigners in Korea.
Foreign hagwon teachers already get a bad rap in Korea. And I believe that people with fake degrees are more likely to reinforce negative stereotypes about foreigners. I don't want anybody making the situation worse for the good and honorable foreigners represented on Dave's   |
Surely, you jest prosodic. I imagine the opposite: The two guys I know who're illegals aren't rocking the boat because they have a good thing here and don't want to risk exposure. Maybe that's why they smile all the time.
A little less arrogant "I'm better than thou and them" is good for us all. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Saxiif
Joined: 15 May 2003
Location: Seongnam
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 6:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| The ideal thing will be when Korea starts to focus on English or Education majors for teaching jobs (the Japan is doing these days). |
While it is silly to think that a major in say, Chemisty, does much of anything to prepare you for teaching english I don't see why it makes sense to prefer English majors. As far as I can tell, all English majors generally do to prepare them for teaching is reading a lot and then writing about what they read, which is exactly the same thing us history majors do for most of college. Recruiting education majors seems to make a hell of a lot more sense... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ryleeys
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: Columbia, MD
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 6:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| My major wasn't English, but being in International Relations and History does require a certain ability to speak and write effectively. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bulgogiboy
Joined: 12 Nov 2003
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 6:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Somebody said "it is wrong to break the law". Perhaps this is true...
However, think about this:
The law is an ass
If you break the law you are breaking an ass
Don't you kids teachers want to break some asses?
I know I did...
BB |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kangnamdragon
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Kangnam, Seoul, Korea
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 6:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Hardy Boy wrote: |
I know two guys in Korea who don't have university degrees. One seems like a slacker and the other an eager beaver. They both work in hogwans, like Korea and smile a lot.
| schwa wrote: |
| if someone fakes their way into the system & does the job well, I'd never call them down. |
Neither would I. And I think a hogwan couldn't care less.
. |
It couldn't care less until it gets caught for breaking the law. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kangnamdragon
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Kangnam, Seoul, Korea
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 7:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bulgogiboy wrote: |
Somebody said "it is wrong to break the law". Perhaps this is true...
However, think about this:
The law is an ass
If you break the law you are breaking an ass
Don't you kids teachers want to break some asses?
I know I did...
BB |
Feelings do not justify breaking the law. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
oneiros
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Location: Villa Straylight
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 7:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Gord wrote: |
Requiring a degree is a rather new thing. When I came over, it was not required.
Wouldn't a better solution be a test? That way everyone who can pass the test is known to be on the same playing field in terms of minimal skill?
Ironically, the brightest guy I know at English writing only has a year of college, and that was in Japanese studies. He had published works around the world and can write better than pretty much everyone here (including myself), yet cannot work in Korea teaching (if he wanted to) because he lacks a degree. Is that fair? |
I think you should sell this idea to the Korean government. Think of the money making potential. They could charge all the applicants, say, $200 to write the test. Then there's the market for the "Study guide", and special tutorial seminars. This is brilliant.
I've already stated my feelings on the fake degree issue on another thread, so I'll spare you all here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
prosodic
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Location: ����
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 7:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Hardy Boy wrote: |
| prosodic wrote: |
My concern is the reputation of foreigners in Korea.
Foreign hagwon teachers already get a bad rap in Korea. And I believe that people with fake degrees are more likely to reinforce negative stereotypes about foreigners. I don't want anybody making the situation worse for the good and honorable foreigners represented on Dave's |
Surely, you jest prosodic. I imagine the opposite: The two guys I know who're illegals aren't rocking the boat because they have a good thing here and don't want to risk exposure. Maybe that's why they smile all the time.
A little less arrogant "I'm better than thou and them" is good for us all. |
It was partially in jest. But if you had read my post carefully, you would have understood that my concern is mainly competence. My most detailed example was of a person who provided incorrect vocabulary information. I believe that sooner or later, some students will realize that they're being taught incorrect things and that may sour their opinion of the average foreign teacher. The negative stereotypes I was referring to are mainly about competence in the classroom. However, I believe that a degree merely increases the likelihood that a person will have an adequate education to teach English. It is not a guarantee. On this matter, I think we are for the most part in agreement based on your response to Gord.
Also, I completely agree that illegals who are planning to stay are more likely to keep a low profile than legals who are planning to stay. At the same time, I am sure that there are a number of illegals who think of Korea as a short term gig. It's the short-termers who get caught. And yes, even something as minor as being caught teaching illegally can reinforce negative sentiments about foreigners.
Negotiating the divide between generalization and a specific case is a very difficult balancing act. I may have leaned a bit too heavily toward the side of generalization. But then again, the OP asked a general question unrelated to a specific case. If the OP had asked about a specific situation with a specific illegally employed foreigner who is as competent or more competent than your average legally employed foreigner, I would have given a very different answer. If I must respond to a general question, I stand by what I wrote before except that I would probably excise the comment about not caring about the legality of the issue. The truth is that I do care about whether or not it's legal. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Patong Dong
Joined: 06 May 2003
Location: On Nut
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 12:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
As far as teaching at a hakwon I take the view of others; that a non-degree holder could do as well as anyone with a degree. It seems that with some people here the ink hasn't dried on their diplomas and they haven't realised how common it is. I am glad I got one but is there anyone out there who actually believes it was intellectually taxing to get a B.A.? Yes, there was a t times a lot of work but never a case I can't do this.
Now think of the myriad reasons as to why one might not have a B.A. It is not just slackers looking for an easy ride, there could have been any number of reasons. Someone could be in their 30's (taking 4 years out of your life at 30 is not the same as doing it at 1 and wanting to see the world or wanting to get away and they know they could do the job but the elitists here would say "no, that is criminal, stay home." Forget it, Hakwon "Teachers" it's not our call, if the person can get a job I say "welcome to Korea"
I am amazed at how all of a sudden people are holding the hakwon industry to such high standards. Do your job well and don't begrudge others the same opportunity you had. Grow up! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Badmojo
Joined: 07 Mar 2004
Location: I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 12:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think most of you are forgetting an important thing here. This BA requirement has nothing to do with teaching. It doesn't make you a teacher if you have one. So why should you need one?
So, people, forge away for all I care. Do what you want to do and do it with impunity. These "borrowed ladders", these "degenerates", who cheat the system are cheating nobody as far as I'm concerned. What? They don't have a piece of paper that doesn't qualify them for the job they're doing? The horror! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 12:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Badmojo wrote: |
I think most of you are forgetting an important thing here. This BA requirement has nothing to do with teaching. It doesn't make you a teacher if you have one. So why should you need one?
So, people, forge away for all I care. Do what you want to do and do it with impunity. These "borrowed ladders", these "degenerates", who cheat the system are cheating nobody as far as I'm concerned. What? They don't have a piece of paper that doesn't qualify them for the job they're doing? The horror! |
I marked for this Gattaca reference. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Paji eh Wong
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 1:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'd be interested in seeing how classes from a non degree holder, a degree holder from a random discipline, and an education major did on a standardized test.
Anybody know of a study like this?. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
