|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
|
 Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2003 3:33 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Quote: |
| Yes, the brain is like a muscle, and I agree that television can and usually is watched with little brainwork. But that's not to say that it's necessarily so. I used to analysis the news for *beep* and giggles and that required a lot of thoughtwork (what are they not saying, what approach are they taking, etc.). |
There's good tv, but precious little of it, so I'm talking about the average veiwer. The way it's watched by most people doesn't do much for them
| Quote: |
Imagination in terms of calling up pictures from the written words of a book is not necessarily of any import. So I can visualize The Great Brain (I loved those books) locale and characters -- what does that do but improve my ability to read books?
|
It improves your ability to engage in abstract thinking, and it improves your vocabulary, and you ability to hold several complex concepts in your mind at one time.
| Quote: |
I have an interest in cinema and television and acting so when I'm watching television (or a movie) I'm constantly analyzing the camera angles (Why this angle? Why a three-shot instead of two? Why POV instead of over the shoulder?) and acting.
I'm an avid reader but it hasn't helped my concentration much in other areas. |
Respectfully, how do you know this? You're capable of getting something more than the average person from tv watching because you are already literate. TV in general, as watched by most people, eg news, sitcoms, drama's, game shows, sports, just doesn't deal with ideas in the same way that books do. Concerntration that has been developed through reading applies to any activity where you have to focus on a mentally challenging task for an extended period.
The decrease in literacy in the states closely follows the spike in tv watching hours for the average person. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Wormholes wrote: |
We tend to form our opinions about groups of people by our interactions with members of that group. In this case, we make generalizations about Koreans based on the ones that we have met and have dealings with. It's just a normal human trait.
I have met some Koreans that I would say are lacking; in particular, the critical thinking department. Enough to want to generalise to the group in general.
|
I still believe that confucianism and the strong tendency towards conformity in this society have something to do with the lack of critical thinking. At least, I percieve a lack of critical thinking, but that could be to do with my own cultural parameters and what I actually conceptualise as critical thinking. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 12:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It seems to be the fault of Nurture, not Nature.
I once taught in a preschool where the director and the teachers did not value creativity. In all the classrooms, I never saw a child's artwork posted on the wall.
Each week, I gave a lesson centered around a different noun. I drew an antecedent of each noun in several different ways. Then I would hold up the pencil and say, "Who can draw a (house) (tree) (bird) (flower)?" Yes, you guessed it: each volunteer drew a (house) (tree) (bird) (flower) which looked like the one which I drew.
All went smoothly until, instead of teaching a noun, I taught "red" as an adjective. Without giving an example, I held up a crayon and said, "Who can draw something red?" All I got was blank stares. Then I had to coax them. "Draw anything. Draw a house. Draw a tree. Draw a bird. Draw a flower." After a few more minutes of coaxing, one student would make the brave plunge. After that, I got more volunteers who drew whatever the first child drew.
This was not true in the youngest class, however. In that class, the children volunteered as eagerly as they always do. Each child was only able to scribble, but each child made a different scribble. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Yes, I absolutely believe creativity and critical thinking to be products of nurture not nature. Do you think that Korea fosters these qualities? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
| Yes, I absolutely believe creativity and critical thinking to be products of nurture not nature. Do you think that Korea fosters these qualities? |
As I've contended before: do you think our culture does? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| As I've contended before: do you think our culture does? |
Not in an absolute way, but yes, signigicantly more so than in Korea. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
| Not in an absolute way, but yes, signigicantly more so than in Korea. |
The reason I ask and the reason I began this discussion way back when is because I still don't see any appreciable difference between the individual creativity of my culture and Korean culture. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| The reason I ask and the reason I began this discussion way back when is because I still don't see any appreciable difference between the individual creativity of my culture and Korean culture. |
Perhaps you need glasses. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
| Perhaps you need glasses. |
Perhaps, but in the entire life of this thread nobody has been able to demonstrate a difference on an individual level. I actually think that people, uncreatively and uncritically (Koreans and westerners both) accept the idea that westerners are more creative uncritically. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Perhaps, but in the entire life of this thread nobody has been able to demonstrate a difference on an individual level. I actually think that people, uncreatively and uncritically (Koreans and westerners both) accept the idea that westerners are more creative uncritically. |
Like you said, you had made your mind up before the thread even started. There have in fact been numorous proofs, but you have't wanted to see them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
| Like you said, you had made your mind up before the thread even started. There have in fact been numorous proofs, but you have't wanted to see them. |
Negative. There has not.
This is a topic never far from my mind so I'm constantly on the lookout and I can say that I've met only a handful of really creative people in my life. As far as critical thinking goes most people I know don't engage in it to any large degree (myself included) beyond taking an opposing side for the sake of being contrary. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
leeroy12
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
I can't be bothered to look through the 16 pages of this thread - so sorry if this has been said before... 
East Asian students certainly seem to be less creative and, in some ways, less thoughtful than their Western counterparts. But could this be more a case of them not wanting to show their creativity and critical thinking abilities, than not having them per se.
If a student tells me "There is no AIDS in China", or "Korean food is the best food in the world" (despite never having tried anything else) then does this display a lack of critical thinking, or simply different attitudes to when honesty is appropriate? Saving face seems to us like a tragic loss of objectivity, but did those students really believe there was no AIDs in China or that KimChee is literally unrivalled?
With creativity, I understand that most Asian students (when in an educational state of mind) labour under the idea that there is One Correct Answer. Thus, more open questions like "What will you do when you get home?" can be confusing and demoralising, as there is no Correct Answer as such and the students are baffled as to what to say/do. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 3:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Negative. There has not. |
Positive. There have been numourous examples.
| Quote: |
This is a topic never far from my mind so I'm constantly on the lookout and I can say that I've met only a handful of really creative people in my life. As far as critical thinking goes most people I know don't engage in it to any large degree (myself included) beyond taking an opposing side for the sake of being contrary. |
I see, you don't understand what creativity and critical thinking are. Always going to be tough for you to make meaningful contributions to this thread even though you started it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 3:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
Here's a classic taken from Kwangju Chicken that relates to the topic at hand ...
| Quote: |
Here is #1. From 2001-2003 I taught in a college in Pusan. When I first got there I noticed all over the campus were combination lockers for the students to use. Although they looked pretty new, most were broken so you did not need to know the combination to open them.
I asked the secretary about this. He said that the lockers were only a couple of years old. And the reason why they were broken was because they never worked in the first place. That is, the combinations did not work, so they had to break them all open. The secretary still had the list of numbers. He said that hundreds of students were given a locker and the combination for it. But, not one single student, or staff member was ever able to get them to open, so they broke them on purpose so they could still use them, but could not lock them.
I could not believe it. So, I found one that was not broken. I asked if I could have the combination for it and use it for myself.
So, the secreatary, who had the list of numbers in his office went with me to the locker. He also had a maintenance man come with us. I still remember the number . 14-9-23.
So, first, to prove me wrong, the secretary tries to open it. It will not work. Then the maintenance man tries. Sill it will not work. So I try. Voila. Open no problem.
Why? Because both the secretary and the maintenance man went, right 14, right 9, right 23. But, I, of cousre, what with being from Earth, where one knows about such things, went right 14 left 9 right 23.
Not one student, or staff menber at an entire college knew the correct way to open a combination lock, so they broke them open. And the lockers were made in KOREA
UNBELIEVABLE
But true.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
| I see, you don't understand what creativity and critical thinking are. Always going to be tough for you to make meaningful contributions to this thread even though you started it. |
Actually, I do know what I'm talking about. Spent a lot of time reading people like De Bono and Doug Hall and I could make a list of 500 uses for a dead mouse without batting an eye. There isn't a gadget I can't figure out and I'm the goto guy for "how would/can you. . .?" questions.
Critical thinking. . . Well, I'm admittingly nothing special there.
The lock story is funny, but seriously, if you had never been exposed to that kind of lock how would figure it out. Lots of grade nines had to have it explained to them when I was in high school. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
