Site Search:
 
Speak Korean Now!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Ok whats the deal about really getting ripped off bya Hogwan
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Job-related Discussion Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
lepid gecko



Joined: 28 May 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Evil Clown wrote:
You'll get no advance notice and be expected to have known about it yesterday.


hahaha..too true! i've been told about something and then they act all suprised that i didn't remember, despite never been told in the first place,
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
seoulonmind



Joined: 25 May 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lepid gecko wrote:
The Evil Clown wrote:
You'll get no advance notice and be expected to have known about it yesterday.


hahaha..too true! i've been told about something and then they act all suprised that i didn't remember, despite never been told in the first place,


what would an example be? Just one or two?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
prosodic



Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Location: ����

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seoulonmind wrote:
lepid gecko wrote:
The Evil Clown wrote:
You'll get no advance notice and be expected to have known about it yesterday.


hahaha..too true! i've been told about something and then they act all suprised that i didn't remember, despite never been told in the first place,


what would an example be? Just one or two?


Ok. Every now and then, at some schools, the owner/director posts an announcement in Korean. At the best schools, they'll post it in both English and Korean, but at some decent schools they'll post it only in Korean. Yes, they should know better when half the staff or so is from overseas and can't read Korean. This is why it's important to be friendly with the Korean teachers. Find one who can speak English well. Become friends even if it's just out of convenience. Then ask your Korean friend to explain every Korean sign that looks like it could be an announcement.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
seoulonmind



Joined: 25 May 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy done, I am easy going and make friends easily (luckily).......one of my reasons of going to Korea is to immerse into the culture. To do this I have to make lots of good Korean Friends. I did that in Spain, and after 5 months or so, I was just like a Spaniard (well almost, except for the blonde hair and light skin). I hope Koreans warm up to americans as well as the people of Spain did in 1990 and 1991 (and that was during the first gulf war) Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
lepid gecko



Joined: 28 May 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seoulonmind wrote:
lepid gecko wrote:
The Evil Clown wrote:
You'll get no advance notice and be expected to have known about it yesterday.


hahaha..too true! i've been told about something and then they act all suprised that i didn't remember, despite never been told in the first place,


what would an example be? Just one or two?


seoulonmind, in answer to your OP question, a lot of the posters here have given good advice. I can only say, that my school is pretty good. what that means is all relative i guess. but don't let the forum make you paranoid, i read dave's 3 months before i arrived in korea. if i'd go back to that, i wouldn't have done it. it's not worth it, simply because with even one bit of advice, as grotto mentioned, you're sorted. forget all the peripheral stuff...that's just my humble opinion.

as for an example: time-table changes. the no 1 event. I'd be ready to go to class, and as I'm walking out, be told about a mixed class, time changes after i've done prep work. it's fine i improvise, but it can be disconcerting in the beginning.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
seoulonmind



Joined: 25 May 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lepid gecko

FLEXIBILITY LIKE THAT is a good quality
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
prosodic



Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Location: ����

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seoulonmind wrote:
do you teach there now? Has the situation on Korea gotten better for the Won and Hagwons? I am 29 now, not sure how old you were. I have been working in the technology industry since 1996 but have a B.A. in English and All Level Education. I will take your advice to a T, you sound like you really know what you are talking about.

Thanks for your time, anything else you want to add, just shoot!

bri


I left Korea in 98. I've been back and forth a few times since. Right now I'm teaching one class at a college in NY, doing some other work, and thinking about going back to Korea.

The golden age of ESL teaching in Korea was the late 80s and early 90s. When I first arrived, the old-timers were always talking about the good old days. We were all making 1.6-3 million per month in 96-97. Less in 98. They told stories about the good old days of the late 80s and early 90s and making 15 or 20 million won a month when the exchange rate was under 800 won to the dollar. Some of that was exaggeration and some of it wasn't. Actually, some of the really good Korean teachers could make close to 100 million won per month in the heyday. I was at a hagwon where all the Korean teachers and some of the foreigners were paid per head.

The big money was in listening comprehension and TOEIC. Korean teachers would stand at the front of the room, play a tape, and then explain every word and all grammar on the tape. They'd squeeze 60, 70, 100 students into a room that wasn't big enough. Each student paid 60-70,000 won for a month long class and the teacher took 40% of the total.

The foreigners who went the percentage route taught Side by Side. They would squeeze 30 or 40 students into a room and do repetition drills all day. There was no interaction, just "repeat after me." Students paid more for this than for listening comprehension, maybe 80,000 won per month. Again, the teacher took 40%

When people were raking in money hand over fist, everybody was happy and the hagwon owners treated everybody well. Then things changed. Students stopped being happy with those kinds of classes. I don't blame them, those classes sucked for the students. The economics of the business became more difficult. Everybody started pinching pennies. This was before the national economy went into recession.

Things have stabilized, but it will probably never be like the late 80s and early 90s again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
peppermint



Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be flexible, don't expect anything to be like it was at home, and follow the status quo. Everytime I've run inot trouble here it's because I asked for something that the other teachers didn't. Mind you, in one case all I was asking for was medical insurance. Confused
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chronicpride



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember one thing. You will have your own Korean experience. Not one like anything that anybody else has on here. Because we are different to each other in our perspectives and thousands of other ways.

Add to this is the tremendous amounts of variables that go into living and working here (or just call it 'life').

Also factor in that there are about a few hundred regular posters here reflecting their views and experiences through their eyes, when there are between 15-20,000 other ESL teachers in Korea that we are not hearing about. And say about half of those people are here for one or two years and then a new one comes in. And it's been that way for years.

My point is, that there are and have been tens of thousands of people that come through here. If it was all bad or even if the majority of cases were bad, then you would hear a tremendous amount of bad press about Korea and a massive amount of bad reports about schools. Far more than what we are seeing online.

You'll come here and meet people in the flesh and who are happy and content. In fact, you will find more people are content, than disgruntled. As mentioned previously, people who are wronged are more vocal than the one's who are content. Besides, if you are working at a good gig, you are less inclined to shout and tell the world about it, because you don't want every average joe teacher knocking on their door. You'd rather refer it to people you know or know of, and who you'd want to work with.

You can comb thru all of the paranoid, brinkmanship tactics, 'be a hardass' advice. But just come here, bring your common sense with you, and be yourself. Trust your own gut. Just like you would anywhere else. You know your instincts better than any anonymous person on the net. And there's no real mystery about watching out for the crooks. You can spot them from a mile away, if you are not too gullible.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Son Deureo!



Joined: 30 Apr 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chronicpride wrote:
And there's no real mystery about watching out for the crooks. You can spot them from a mile away, if you are not too gullible.


I agree with all of your advice in this post, except for this.

While you can spot a crook from a mile away, it's much harder to spot a crook from 10,000 miles away, which is where the OP actually is.

Taking a job in Korea from abroad is a crapshoot. You may win, and you may lose. Most situations are tolerable, but require some adjustment. Most first jobs here aren't great, though. Some situations are intolerable, though. Make sure you have enough money to get yourself out of the country in case you end up in a worst case scenario.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chronicpride



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Son Deureo! wrote:
chronicpride wrote:
And there's no real mystery about watching out for the crooks. You can spot them from a mile away, if you are not too gullible.


I agree with all of your advice in this post, except for this.

While you can spot a crook from a mile away, it's much harder to spot a crook from 10,000 miles away, which is where the OP actually is.

Taking a job in Korea from abroad is a crapshoot. You may win, and you may lose. Most situations are tolerable, but require some adjustment. Most first jobs here aren't great, though. Some situations are intolerable, though. Make sure you have enough money to get yourself out of the country in case you end up in a worst case scenario.


I should have mentioned that I meant spotting them when in Korea. Personally, I'd never sign a 1 yr contract, from abroad, doing anything, if my live depended on it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Gollum



Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with choronic on that. I always tell people to come here first and see the job they're going to take.

Some people cry, "But I don't have enough money."

My response to that is: Dont come. If you're not financially capable of taking the risk, then don't take it. You could easily end up penniless and trapped in Korea.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chronicpride



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gollum wrote:
I agree with choronic on that. I always tell people to come here first and see the job they're going to take.

Some people cry, "But I don't have enough money."

My response to that is: Dont come. If you're not financially capable of taking the risk, then don't take it. You could easily end up penniless and trapped in Korea.


True. I strongly feel that there would be a lot less bad experiences, if people paid their way over, had enough money to last for a month, and conducted their job research and contract signing over here. This whole concept of entrusting a person behind a phone call, on the condition of their employment and accommodation, is ludicrous.

It's not unlike those grannies that get shafted by phone con artists every year. You have absolutely no idea of who you are talking to, nor what you are getting yourself into, and have to rely on the brief trust that is developed over a 30 minute phone interview and a handful of emails. And then teachers come on here complaining about getting screwed over. What the hell do you expect?

I wish this board could focus more on educating teachers on how to come over here on their own, live here for a few weeks, while looking for gigs, as opposed to 'how to secure a job from overseas'. The overseas contract gambling is the biggest root of teacher's problems over here. If teachers got into the habit and practice of coming over here on their own dollar and doing the job hunt in Korea, this will eventually force shady hogwans to clean up their acts, because the teacher sitting across from them can look them in the eye, as opposed to over the phone. And we have the power to say 'no' to their offer or conditions and go next door to the next interview.

But people whine about 'oh, what about reimbursement? They won't reimburse airfare!' If you can't find a school in Korea that will reimburse your ticket, then you either haven't visited any schools yet or don't have a tongue to ask them to put it in a contract. Anyone that tells you that you can't get reimbursement is speculating and doesn't know a lick of what they are talking about. Every guy that I know that has come over on their own dollar has been reimbursed.

If you can pay for your own ticket, have at least $500 to live on, and the only Korean language that you know is 'waygook-eo hagwon' and you know how to read and look for that, you can have a job within a few days of looking and interviewing.


Last edited by chronicpride on Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:38 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Grotto



Joined: 21 Mar 2004

PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:39 pm    Post subject: experience Reply with quote

My first year in Korea was in Suwon with ECC, the curriculum was a joke, one page a day...but I also had the flexibility to spice it up as I saw fit once that one page was finished. The hours were 3-8 M-S but after 6 months they changed it to M-F Very Happy The kids were kids, no better or worse than any others. The class sizes were fairly small, no more than 8 and as small as 2. The Korean teachers were some of the best I have seen in Korea, friendly, helpful and their English was excellent. While I had some minor problems I would say that overall it was a good experience. I did get screwed out of 1/2 my pension money and they tried to tell me that they had overpaid me 100,000 won on my last payday! They picked me up at the airport and took me back there no problems.

My second year has been with REI in Taebaek. It started off kind of wierd! I was met at the airport by a recruiter who told me what bus to get on...made me pay for my own ticket....and off I went...I was dropped off at the bus depo in Wonju at about 12:30 AM. The person who was supposed to meet the bus wasnt there Shocked Here I am in a dark parking lot, with no phone, in a strange city/country. Being the adventurous soul I am I flagged down a passing Korean and through mime I got him to dial the number I had. Oh you're here, I'll be there in about 20 minutes. Then followed the slowest drive I have ever experienced..what should have been a 2 hour drive was stretched into a 3.5 hour drive. I was dropped off at my apartment and left to my own devices...

I woke up the next day and took a look around, breathtaking mountains, nice view, large spacious apartment. The apartment had the TV, VCR, fridge, an oven Shocked , microwave. But that was it! No toilet paper, soap, food, etc....except for a rotting chicken stuffed into the tiny freezer and an almost empty jar of strawberry jam.

My next door neighbor I was told was the other English teacher. So about 10 AM I went over to introduce myself. A note on the door Question I have done a midnight run so sorry I didnt like it here Shocked I enter the apartment and it is empty. I loot the place thoroughly, taking the good fridge, several plates, cups, knives, forks, spoons, TOILET PAPER, some good chairs etc. Swapping the crappy things in my apartment for the better stuff in the other one Wink I liked my apartment because of the OVEN Very Happy Once I had looted it to my satisfaction I called the director and told him the situation.

Hmmmm my first day in Korea and the only other foreign teacher did a midnight run after just a week? What had I got myself into?

Over the course of the next several months things went pretty smoothly, the director turned out to be a backstabbing moron. He would come to me and complain about the other foreign teacher and then go to the other foreign teacher and complain about me. Like we dont talk to each other being the only other foreigners in town(that we knew of). The curriculum was okay, if a little boring.

Then the insanity began Mad The school decided that the diary writing program I had started was too difficult for the students and told my students that they didnt have to do it anymore. Of course they didnt consult with me at all Exclamation

We were told not to give tests, too stressful for the students. Do more games Rolling Eyes Dont ask for any reading or writing, this is a speaking listening hogwan Rolling Eyes Dont actually teach them anything just speak lots of English in the class.

Then extra duties started getting piled on...call each student at least once a month....staff meetings every Thursday...classes changed from 40 minutes to 45....extra classes added...schedule changed to a spread shift...more demands for making programs...etc. The list was endless. At the start I was flexible and tried to go with the flow. Big mistake! As the demands became for frequent and the hours at the school increased without any overtime I got ticked off and finally just said NO! No money no honey! You want more work, I want more pay. No pay No work! Pissed them off pretty good, the last 3-4 months have been pretty bad. About 2 months ago I started counting the days..sad but true..3 more teaching days and I am free Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy


Last edited by Grotto on Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
seoulonmind



Joined: 25 May 2004

PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peppermint wrote:
Be flexible, don't expect anything to be like it was at home, and follow the status quo. Everytime I've run inot trouble here it's because I asked for something that the other teachers didn't. Mind you, in one case all I was asking for was medical insurance. Confused


peppermint:

You got into trouble just for asking for the medical insurance that they HAVE to provide you?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Job-related Discussion Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International