Korean Job Discussion Forums

[own_king]

Just to clarify, in starting this thread I had no intention of praising or bashing the school or recruiting for them. I just thought it might be an interesting thread since I saw a couple people recently asking about ECC schools on this board, so I decided to put in my two cents and hear what other people have to say. All of the experiences are as valid as any other. I have heard terrible things about ECC. In fact, even some of my fellow employees had a hard time with our director (much of their own doing sometimes). For example, there was a teacher there before I came who used to run down to the 7-11 between classes and have a beer. If he couldn't finish it in time, he would take it into class in a paper bag He wasn't fired though - he quit in his 11th month! But as far as syllabus, curriculum, books, organization, and schedule things were pretty solid. The was credence given to tests however, and the report cards were a bit of a joke. Like one time I had a Korean teacher who tried to change one of the marks on one of my report cards. When the next report period came up, I just gave them back to her and told her to do them herself. It never happened again. And the kids were great, but at this point in my career, I don't like the "let's play games" atmosphere that a lot of newby (and some not-so-newby) teachers try to employ in the classroom.

[Corporal]

I taught part-time for ECC last year and they paid me 30,000 per class. That was cool....

[chronicpride]

[ghostshadow]

[Homer]

Excellent point...have you worked there at all?

[kprrok]

I am just laughing at you Dalton. You're like the typical 'boy who cried wolf' in this thread. "I heard from A who was a shopper at the same Family Mart as B, who heard it from his laundry man who also did Cs laundry that ECC sucks."

Whatever? This whole debate is similar to the whole Wonderland thing. Instead of saying "they suck, prove me wrong", why not prove to us that they suck? I'm perfectly willing to concede that some ECC schools are crap. I'm sure there are lots of crappy schools out there. Just like I'm sure there are some crappy Wonderlands out there. The problem with a board like this is that (pulling this statistic out of the air) 90% of the people who post about a school are doing it because they're mad. The happy and content ones don't normally worry about posting. They just keep the job and enjoy themselves.

Me, I'm perfectly hapy at my Wonderland. I love my contract, my boss is cool, the students are great. I'm sure nto everyone has a similar experience. These chain or franchise schools vary a lot from location to location. Don't go out and say "ECC/Wonderland/Whatever is crap just because I've heard 2 bad stories." How about some real life experiences and proof?

KPRROK

[Zyzyfer]

Okay, a real life experience. One of my coworkers took a 5-day holiday and the school decked his pay by 500,000 won, instead of prorating the number of days he worked and putting it against the full normal salary. Very ambiguous stance on holidays.

They also had another of my coworkers starting work at 6 am and finishing at 9 pm, with classes littered in between. He had two days where he taught 14 classes. I got the split shift treatment as well, but my first class wasn't until 9 am, and I never got above 10 classes a day. During the summer, though, it was pretty brutal, and I had hardly any overtime to show for it.

Granted, the school was good in many other ways. The Korean teacher staff was very friendly and outgoing to the foreigner staff, and for most of the year, the atmosphere was good, aside from hideous work hours. So I have fond memories of that year...not of the school, however.

[Dalton]

In deference to the op's recent post I haven't been watching this thread.
However I suppose I should respond to the three amigos. I didn't see any specifics refuting my arguments in your responding posts. I still haven't seen a contract. Those facts speaks volumes. Your holier than thou responses are a waste of HDD space.

YBM/ECC/SISA Check the blacklists for specific experiences. I gave you a well known refence-Tiger Lilly and you derided it. What point is there in giving any others? My message is for prospective recruits not the recruiters. That's what this board can do well. Give info about Korea and the various schools here to newbies. Sorry if you don't like what that means sometimes.

Prove me wrong and put up a contract. What are you hiding?
Put up or shut up.

The last contract put here revealed that YBM paid about 1.6 for 128 hours per month while the standard contract here paid 2.0 for about 124 hours per month. I think newbies should know that so they can make an informed decision about where to work. Their next contract was for less money. That was 2002.

The first friend I made in Korea worked for YBM and got beat for severance and a months pay. I don't have to work there to comment on them. Who made that rule?I found the blacklist before I came here and chose not to work there. I selected a school not on the blacklist.

Doesn't wonderland have a webpage setup by angry workers? Didn't those workers try to set up a union? Didn't Wonderland can a webpage chatroom they set up for their employees because their employees were using it to compare notes and plan on how to enforce Koreran labour laws on Wonderland. I believe they did.


History exists. It can't be rewritten or spun for those who watched it unfold. Tiger Lilly figured she was owed 6million, I think it was (not what I posted earlier) When she told her story here she was personally attacked by YBM/ECC/SISA people. She couldn't even post about the weather.

That's disgusting and I take great pleasure in reminding everyone of her struggle. And my friend too who was beat for severance and a months pay. Will you be the next teacher to work at either of those schools? Or will you be smart and avoid schools and chains with multiple blacklistings? Hard decision.

Since Wonderland was mentioned although I don't know why.

Prisoner of Wonderland

From the EFL Law site:

"B. One school chain that continually features in e-mail's to us is the Wonderland School. It appears there are over 80 schools in the chain. One should very carefully read the contract offered by them and receive advice before signing it. The Internet provides many links regarding this chain of schools. One site well worth a read is the Prisoner of Wonderland site that provides balanced comments about this chain.

Two documents we have seen that originate from a school in the Wonderland group, the Letter of Reprimand, and Explanation of Apology, are clearly designed so that the employer can dismiss the employer for any reason whatsoever and still appear to comply with the Korean Labor Standards Act which prohibits unjust and unfair dismissal. Note this document we have seen only bears the name of one school, and thus may only apply to one school in the chain. If you are considering working for this chain ask if the school uses the abovementioned documents.

The Explanation of Apology follows upon the Reprimand Letter given by the teacher's supervisor. To receive a Letter of Reprimand, one must have committed an offense from a list of 'offenses,' some which are fair, some which are grossly unfair. One such 'offense' which can lead to a reprimand is "Grumble at work without evidence." This would be a first in legal history -

Once you have received the Letter of Reprimand, you are deemed proven guilty of the offense noted. The employee then gets a chance to write an "Explanation of Apology" but according to the document "...When the employee failed [sic] to write Explanation of Apology, the Employer can Terminate the Employment." Clearly the presumption of guilt is paramount at all times and failure to agree with that presumption can see your employment Terminated.

The paper work, despite its gross unfairness, would be evidence against the employee seeking a reinstatement based on unfair dismissal.

Our recommendation would be to advise any teacher not to work for any employer who uses this type of documentation."

[Homer]

Still you are talking from heresay and third person testimony both of which we cannot verify.

Also Dalton no one said ECC was great. Most related their personal work experience at an ECC.
That is what is called a direct source. Not all of us have financial motives when it comes to ECC...

For example, my old ECC is still a good school to work at for a new teacher. I have friends working there (both korean and western) and they do not get cheated out of anything. They have a heavy schedule but thats not a cheat.

Your put up or shut up demand applies first and foremost to you Dalton...you have not put up anything except "he said that she said that he said that working at ECC is bad".
So Dalton, put up or at the very least read the posts in this thread and be honest.
Most of us related our experiences to show that your orginal claim about ECC was too one sided.
You do not respond to this but rather say put up or shut up and then cite third party rumors or histories about ECC when you seem to have never worked there.
Not excatly convincing so what makes your opinion any more valid then those of the people in this thread who have worked at ECC?

[Dalton]

You are too funny.
Exactly how is anyone to verify your comments?

Where's the contract?
What are you afraid of?

[Homer]

This is pathetic...

Your little trick of not responding and asking for contracts and proof when you offer none yourself is comical.

"Exactly how is anyone to verify your comments? "..right back at you my man...how does anyone verify your third party hearsay?


Which claim is more valid Dalton?

That of teachers who say the ECC they worked at was ok.

or

Your claim that ALL ECC's are crap.

Nevermind the answer as you will no doubt put up some more microwaved crap like: gimmee a contract, show me the money...

Tip for Dalton: in order for your demand of proof to be valid, you would ahve to have put forth some proof yourself...so how bout it Dalton...show me an ECC contract and then (your magic trick) prove to me that ALL ECC's are bad and that EVERY teacher who worked at one and said they were decent places was a liar...go for it Dalton.

This should be quite the magic show.[/quote]

[Paula May]

Dalton

If you are really that concerned about viewing the contract, ECC posts it on their website www.ybmecc.co.kr . I cannot comment directly on the working conditions of any ECC, but I did sign a contract with them and I will start next week. I can say that the contract I signed is word-for-word what they post on their website, the only difference being, mine is for 95 hours instead of 90, for 1.8 million. But at my last school I was working 120 hours for 1.8 million. Hmmmm, 1.8 for 120 vs 1.8 for 95 ........

I have been in contact with teachers from the school where I will be working at, and they have had positive things to say about the school and the working conditions. Also, I have been VERY impressed by the way that the school has been in contact with me over the past two months while I have been here in Canada, and I have received numerous emails and phone calls, updating me on what was going on.

I trust the teachers that I have spoken to face to face about their experiences at ECC and I believe that I have made a good decision in signing a contract with them.

[Dalton]

Still won't put up the contract eh? LMAO

I am curious how long you intend to post though. I believe this thread is done. I still haven't seen an argument why we should believe you and not the scores of people who've put YBM on blacklists. Now that would be a trick worthy of The Shadow.

Liar is a strong word to use. You are clearly puttiing words in my mouth but I am not calling you a liar. Desperate maybe but not a liar.

Simple advice to newbies is always consult the blacklists. Their purpose is to help enact positive changes for foreign teachers here. Every time you sign on for a school or chain with one or more blacklistings you may be implicitly giving all hogwans the confidence to continue with practices that are harmful and hurtful to others including yourself. Practices that are often illegal in Korea.

Signing with schools and chains not blacklisted may implicitly reinforce good behaviour.

Where's the contract?
What are you afraid of?

[lazymaisey]

Dalton,
Didn't you read Paula May's post????!!! The contract is on their website, if you want to see a contract go to the website and read it. I've read hers and the one on the website and they are word for word except for the different hours.

[Dalton]

Congratulations and I hope you have a good time this year.

I wonder if you would have made that choice if you had discovered this board before yesterday.