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How unappreciative are the younger generation of Koreans?
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Hollywoodaction

Joined: 02 Jul 2004

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 6:37 pm Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Gord wrote:

capa21 wrote:

If you asked the average Korean aged 20-30 why they don't like America or the American presence, quite often they won't have a valid reason. It's ignorance really. I've never heard one young person say something positive about America and it's contributions to this country. I'm not saying that there aren't people who appreciate what America has done but they're few and far between. I'm sick of hearing the same old 'they're loud, rude, they killed those 2 girls.." routine.

Does this mean you will speak up and demand that American public stop their rampant bashing of France and now embrace them as the brother in arms that they were due to their important involvement in the U.S.'s drive for independance?

Sadly, many people tend to have a "do as I say, not as a I do" habit.

While you are technically correct, there is a slight difference. America could have likely achieved independence on its own. It may have been harder but it was possible. On the other hand, there is very little doubt that if the U.S had not intervened, South Korea would be living under the North's domination today.

That said I agree with your point.

American authors have long tried to rewrite history to minimize the contribution of the French (Americans guilty of propaganda? Impossible!). The fact is the Colonials needed the support of the French as they were too weak to dislodge the British from Philadelphia and New York. Furthermore, the economy of the colonies had slowly disentigrated to the point that they may not have been able to support the war for long.

In 1781, the British changed it's focus to the South. Colonial troops were unable to demoralize Cornwallis's troops, but the British soldiers were now short of supplies.

We know that the French defeated the British Royal Navy at the Battle of the Chesapeake on September 5th, 1781, cutting off Cornwallis's supplies and transport. On October 6th, 16000 combined Colonial-French troops were assembled in New York and began the Battle of Yorktown. This led the British to surrender.

dogbert

Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 6:48 pm Post subject:

osangrl wrote:

? Im not saying its a great paper, but i did write it. I wrote it for one of my Boyfriends classes just last week.
This thread is about perceptions. My essay, or his essay, is about the same thing.

I'm sorry; on closer reading I can see that you did indeed write that. I hope your boyfriend got the grade it deserves.

ryleeys

Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: Columbia, MD

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 6:54 pm Post subject:

Hollywoodaction wrote:

On October 6th, 16000 combined Colonial-French troops were assembled in New York and began the Battle of Yorktown. This led the British to surrender.

You might want to clarify this, as Yorktown, Virginia is absolutely nowhere near New York.

I do agree, there is a long standing alliance between France and the United States...

But some things change I guess and neither side seems wanting to continue the alliance at the moment.

On the other hand

Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:50 pm Post subject:

Quote:

I'm sick of hearing the same old 'they're loud, rude, they killed those 2 girls.." routine.

I think you're conflating two types of anti-Americanism here. "They're loud, they're rude" is what we might call cultural anti-Americanism, which usually focusses on the personal and cultural deficencies of Americans. You know: they're stupid, they're fat, their pop culture is crap, Starbucks is the anti-christ, etc etc. In my experiecne, this type of anti-Americanism is most common among Canadians and Europeans, and is basically resultant from a combination of jealousy and snobbery. How dare the land of Jerry Springer and FOX NEWS displace the land of Shakespeare and THE GUARDIAN as Empire No. 1? (Of course, Benny Hill and NEWS OF THE WORLD go unmentioned in this indictiment)

The thing is, I rarely hear this sort of pseudo-highbrow resentment from even the most anti-American Koreans. When I ask Koreans why they dislike the USA, the answer usually stays focussed on alleged American abuses against Korea. Rarely do I hear anything about Americans being fat or stupid, or about what crap Hollywood turns out. Even when I ask about something like the screen quota system, the reply usually gets framed positivley in terms of protecting the Korean film industry, rather than keeping out "Hollywood crap"(good thing too, because people who do frame such issues negatively can end up applauding any old debris their motherland spews out on the grounds that "at least it's not American").

Anyway, my basic observation here is that Korean anti-Americanism differs from the hoser-limey-eurotrash variety in that it doesn't waste much time on dubious side issues like the stupidity of American tourists or the banality of Britney Spears, and focusses more directly on what are essentially ethical issues to do with alleged American military and political misdeeds in Korea. Of course, many Koreans take their anger out on innocent Americans who have nothing to do with those issues, and far too many of them show little if any interest in issuing similar ethical indictments against their fellow Koreans. My point is just that Korean anti-Americanism is based on somewhat more tangible issues than that found in western nations.

Last edited by On the other hand on Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

Gwangjuboy

Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:26 pm Post subject:

On the other hand wrote:

When I ask Koreans why they dislike the USA, the answer usually stays focussed on alleged American abuses against Korea

What are these alleged abuses of which you speak?

Gwangjuboy

Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:30 pm Post subject:

Gord wrote:

capa21 wrote:

One could assert that the US paid the French back for this in World War Two. Irrespective of this do you have any links that I could look at which how anti-French feeling in the US is as vocal, and as factually incorrect as anti-US sentiment in Korea. I don't think you would mislead the board Gord, but the links would be nice all the same.

adventureman

Joined: 18 Feb 2003

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:04 pm Post subject:

On the other hand wrote:

I think you're conflating two types of anti-Americanism here.

And both of these are usually based around ignorance and stereotypes,something Koreans seem quite good at forming. Well I guess I can't blame them. Pretty much from the time they pop out of the womb, Koreans are constantly being force-fed all these ideas of Aniti-Americanism 24/7. The media is esckewed in favor of it, the public education system supports and encourages it. It is a little wonder why so many are misinformed and pretty much blindly accept that America is evil with no empathy or understanding of U.S.-Korean relations. Pretty sad and pathetic if you ask me.

On the other hand

Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:09 pm Post subject:

Quote:

On the other hand wrote:
When I ask Koreans why they dislike the USA, the answer usually stays focussed on alleged American abuses against Korea

What are these alleged abuses of which you speak?

I'm sure you could make your own list, Gwangjuboy. And maybe "abuse" was too specific a word, I shoulda said something more general like "sins".

But, anyway, most of the Koreans I talk to seem most ticked off about the behaviour of GIs. As well, of course, you've got the whole history of US-Korea relations, dividing the peninsula, supporting the dictators, demoninzing North Korea etc etc. And, of course, there was Ohno, but these days if his name comes up it's usually because I mention it, and nobody seems too agitated about it anymore.

Funny thing is, when I discuss the Gwangju Uprising in class, the students don't normally use it as an excuse to launch into anti-American diatribes. I've heard it said that Koreans blame the Americans for what happened, but in my experience Gwangjuites are well aware that General Chun was the Number 1 bad guy. The most damning thing I've ever heard is that the Americans could have done more to prevent it. Perhaps actually having lived through the events makes them less susceptible to the fiction that Koreans could never do such things to each other without external prompting.

Last edited by On the other hand on Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:24 am; edited 1 time in total

Butterfly

Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:36 pm Post subject: Re: How unappreciative are the younger generation of Koreans

Whilst I do sense a very selfish irreverance among many young Koreans these days, I don't see why Korean people have a lesser right to demonstrate against the war in Iraq than people in Chicago, Paris, Tunis etc. They are not entitled to an opinion because of the Korean war? Anger at the USA, for better or worse, is far from an entirely Korean phenomenon, in case anyone hadn't noticed.

Gwangjuboy

Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:46 am Post subject:

On the other hand wrote:

But, anyway, most of the Koreans I talk to seem most ticked off about the behaviour of GIs. As well, of course, you've got the whole history of US-Korea relations, dividing the peninsula, supporting the dictators, demoninzing North Korea etc etc. And, of course, there was Ohno, but these days if his name comes up it's usually because I mention it, and nobody seems too agitated about it anymore.

What is wrong with the behaviour of GIs? Are members of their own armed forces any better? I have heard some great tales from my Korean friends about the abuses that take place within their own ranks. One of my friends has a brother who attends a mental institution because of the abuse he suffered when carrying out his military duty. Are you suggesting that the division of Korea is the US's fault? I always have to remind Koreans that it was actually Koreans who fought each other in the early fifties. Certain Korean radicals would have you believe that Americans actually murdered all Koreans North of the border and occupied the land! And North Korea deserves to be demonized because it is evil. There can be no debate about that. That isn't a US invention, but the conclusion of numerous human rights groups. I still here references to Ohno, but Koreans often neglect to mention their own unbelievable luck in sport. The Spain game at the world cup is without question the most controversial football match I have ever seen. By standards set in this country the Spanish should have a hatred of Korea because of it. I reiterate, there is no reason for the Korea to dislike the US. Maybe I should start hating my wonjangnim because she is very rich, and has provided me with a job. Confused

PS- I am attacking Koreans with these beliefs OTOH. I don't think you were putting your weight behind them. You were merely telling us what the radicals think. Correct me if I am wrong Wink

On the other hand

Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:24 am Post subject:

Quote:

PS- I am attacking Koreans with these beliefs OTOH. I don't think you were putting your weight behind them. You were merely telling us what the radicals think. Correct me if I am wrong

Ah, that wouldn't happen to be a sober second thought, after-the-post edit, now would it? Heh heh heh. If so, no problem. I do the same thing myself.

You are correct. I was merely reporting the opinions of Koreans. Overall, I agree with you. I suspect that the behaviour of American GIs in Korea is no worse than that of any other country's off-duty soldiers anywhere in the world. And I too have heard the horror stories about physical, psychological and sexual abuse in the Korean army. I also agree that many Koreans use anti-Americanism as a distraction from their country's problems. And please please PLEASE don't get me started on atavistic sports nationalism.

All I will say is that I don't think the anti-USFK sentiment in Korea is much different from what you'd see in any other country, if that country had the same number of US troops respective to the population. Canadians are the most mindlessly anti-American people you could ever have the misfortune of meeting, and I can only imagine the histrionic resentment and self-righteous posturing that would go on if there were a USFC walking the streets of Toronto.

Gwangjuboy

Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:46 am Post subject:

On the other hand wrote:

Ah, that wouldn't happen to be a sober second thought, after-the-post edit, now would it? Heh heh heh. If so, no problem. I do the same thing myself.

. Call it a disclaimer if you like! Sometimes I get a bit excited (negative energy kind) about this subject so I thought a disclaimer would be appropriate in order to make me seem sane!

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:51 am Post subject:

On the other hand wrote:

[. Canadians are the most mindlessly anti-American people you could ever have the misfortune of meeting, and I .

Both Corporal and I are Canadian and I think I can speak for both of us when I say we are not anti-American. I know of other Canadian friends who are the same way. Some Canadians don't like Americans, some Canadians do, and some just don't care. Regardless stop trying to start another Canadian vs American thread. That is exactly the type of remark that trolls use to start a flame war.

On the other hand

Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:25 am Post subject:

Quote:

On the other hand wrote:
[. Canadians are the most mindlessly anti-American people you could ever have the misfortune of meeting, and I .

Both Corporal and I are Canadian and I think I can speak for both of us when I say we are not anti-American. I know of other Canadian friends who are the same way. Some Canadians don't like Americans, some Canadians do, and some just don't care. Regardless stop trying to start another Canadian vs American thread. That is exactly the type of remark that trolls use to start a flame war.

You're right, that was a pretty sweeping(dare I say mindless) generalization. Let me rephrase it:

Those Canadians who are anti-American are the most mindless anti-Americans you could ever have the misfortune of meeting. And if there were tens of thousands of American troops in Toronto, the behaviour of self-styled Canadian patriots would not be much different from what you see in Korea.

adventureman

Joined: 18 Feb 2003

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: How unappreciative are the younger generation of Koreans

Butterfly wrote:

They are not entitled to an opinion because of the Korean war?

Of course they are free to join the anti-bush crusades like 99% of the rest of the world. However, the big difference is, places like Britian don't owe their personal freedom and are not as clearly dependent on America for their own protection and sovereignty and security UP TO THIS VERY DAY as much so as Korea. It is always important to keep things in PERSEPCTIVE as well Butterfly and many Koreans seem to not have any desire to do so. It seems the younger generation only likes to zero in on the negative aspects of America and take those to extremes, completely disregarding anything America has done to assist them in the past (i.e., they direct all this negative energy towards America and tend to over trivialize everything, even more so than what "brothers" in the North are experiencing everyday) Oh I don't know, maybe they would be happier digging through mud trying to scrounge for food in some rice paddy village instead of shoving their faces full kalbi of and talking about getting their hair done with their friends on their handphones. What do you think?

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