Korean Job Discussion Forums

[enchoo]

According to someone I know (Mr. X), CIE has run their business this way since 2000. The director has paid late after the third month that X worked. He was later released under mysterious circumstances after working there for 10 months. He always has ex-teachers and ex-webmasters dropping by for picking up salary that is 2 to 3 months late. Mr X complained about CIE to various academy websites like ESL cafe, English Spectrum, and teachenglish, but these messages have been erased or deleted for some reason.

Austin White, if this has happened recently, you should complain to the labour board. My friend really would like to know what came out of your situation.

[eamo]

Ok. I've just finished a year at CIE Bundang and would like to address some of the complaints in the OP.

For a start, I know the OP and would have a lot of faith in what he has to say. I entirely believe all the complaints in the OP are possible at CIE, however, not all those complaints could be made by me.

I haven't, to my knowledge, been aware of any deductions from my paycheck going where they shouldn't. That sort of stuff is easy to check out though. It's not too hard to get full statements from the Korean Tax and pension offices to check that all was paid correctly.

In saying this, I would still believe that CIE, and any hagwon in Korea, would try to diddle their accounts in relation to your paycheck.

On another point. Yes, a lot of CIE foreign teachers were fired or quit while I was there. Sometimes it was the teachers fault, sometimes it wasn't. I can't really comment here on individual cases but I believe a couple of firings were harsh. The main point is that CIE is not one of those institutions where teachers feel comfortable enough to sign on for another year.

The two big problems at CIE are management incompetence and marginalisation of the foreign teachers.

The managers (lots of guys in suits walk around and no one really knows what they do) are a mess. There's a lot of in-experience there and an inability to compromise with the foreigners on Korean-western cultural clashes. It's a very Korean-style company.

The foreign teachers are seen as a necessary evil. They would really rather we weren't there. But then, of course, they couldn't charge the kind of fees they do. I know it's the same at a lot of hagwons but it doesn't really make the foreign teacher feel like a valued member of staff when they make business cards for the Korean teachers but none for the foreigners. There's a teachers room notice board with the K-teachers names but no foreign teachers. The foreign teachers evalutions were once or twice not even asked for at the end of session.

You begin to see yourself as a tolerated (barely) burden and a second-rate teacher. The feeling is that it's the Korean teachers who are doing the serious work and the foreigners are just there to pretend to teach.

I'm sure a lot of you in hagwons feel the same way. It's just the nature of academy teaching in Korea.

My conclusion is that there are worse places than CIE. I really don't think they cheated me out of any money.

But, if you take teaching at all seriously and want to work at a place that makes just a little sense then don't bother with CIE Bundang.

[ulsanchris]

Austin was a former poster on this board who was anal retentive and mostly sided with hogwan owners.

[eamo]

[iiicalypso]

I have held my tongue this long, but I have to put my two cents worth in. I cannot compare CIE to other institutes, since CIE was my first experience in Korea. I can, however, say that in many ways they are a bunch of self important screwups with little knowledge, but plenty of ideas, of how to run a school. There are a lot of ignorant suits running around licking the boots of the CEO, who is venerated as though he is Dear Leader (and I assure you, he is not).

Do I have some sour grapes because I was fired in my ninth month for no reason? Sure. However, I feel worse for all the students who are forced to go there by parents who actually believe that it is a superior institute. The truth is, a lot of the Korean "teachers" have no business claiming to know English, let alone teach it. The school lies repeatedly about the teacher's qualifications (I know this because I had my students translate my "biography"-- I should be teaching at Harvard or Yale, given my background!). Even if the teachers are competent, they are so buried in pointless extra work that they could never get the important things done.

As for the money questions, well, in theory it is all due to incompetence (that is their claim) but it is not until they get called on it that they make an effort to straighten it out. It isn't enough that they cheat the parents by claiming to care about teaching, but they have to cheat the teachers, too.

I only hope that the students realize the truth-- they are pawns in a numbers gake. CIE only uses students to create an aura of success to trick other people into attending. The truth is that most of the students are already overachievers, and if anything they are hurt by the misinformation that the teachers provide.

If you are a boot licking toadie, you will go far at CIE. As Eamo said, though, don't even think about trying to teach.

[ulsanchris]

eamo some of the earlier posters were talking about austin and and austinwhite was wondering what they were talking about. So i made my previous post.

[enchoo]

I just have a question. Is this position for CIE? If it is, are you certain you wish to recruit for this school? They hire a teacher for about 9 months and then fire them before their tenth month claiming that you haven't adjusted yourself to their way of method of teaching. In the last year they have hired and fired more than 17 instructors. They have been reported to immigration as well as the labor board for shady practices. Incredibly, one of their directors is American. If you have difficulties, just email me...I can give you more details.

[fidel]

So what your trying to say is, now correct me if I'm wrong, is that Austinwhite is really Austin!

[suwonkid]

Yawn.....cie

[TECO]

[enchoo]

Fresh off the Press..............

Those of us who have been living and teaching in South Korea for any length of time understand that there is no perfect hogwan. Many cultural differences and diffused expectations must be taken with an open mind and a genuine will to accept differences of opinion and culture.
Every once in a while, however, there is a school that deserves either praise or condemnation for it's repeated actions.
In my opinion, "black listing" a school should be done with an appropriate amount of forethought and consideration by any teacher. Likewise, new teachers comming to South Korea should always be careful when reading comments about the school, keeping in mind what manner the "black listing" was written, and if it is not simply a disgruntled teacher trying to exact revenge on an institution.
However, I wish to warn any teacher in or comming to South Korea against working at an institution called CIE, or Center for International Education. This school is located in Bundang, with branches in Sunae-dong and Miegum. The recruiting company, ORANGE EDUCATION (Stephen Cho) almost exclusively finds teachers for this school.
I worked for this institution last year, along with a teacher in the ESL field for 14 years, two other American friends and collegues, and another teacher with an MED in Education, who is now a good friend and who is experiencing the majority of the list below.

In an effort to shorten this posting, here is a brief list of this school's repeatedly unethical practices and general acts of bafoonery:
1. Stealing intelectual property from teachers
2. Taking pension funds out of paychecks, and using it for the school's personal use, (thousands of dollars).
3. Pension extrememly difficult to get; nothing short of consistent pressure from teachers, after the money has been taken out for months and months, with nothing put towards the teacher's pension.
4. Taking taxes out of sallary, and using it for personal school use.
5. Failure to give letters of release as required by both law and contract in order to suit their own purposes.
6. Terminating teachers in the 10th month and cuasing extreme stress and runaround concerning letters of release, pay, etc.
7. Poorly managed schools, usually in the hands of an incompetent financial director who knows little or nothing about the needs of teaching staff
8. Failure to pay overtime
9. Blatant lying about when overtime, pension, severence, and plane fair will be given to teachers.
10. General incompetence of management.

While not everything in the above list was experience by the author of this notice, the majority was, and any teacher considering a position with this school should know they are doing so at their own risk. Thank you for reading this, and I hope it is helpful to the ESL teaching community in South Korea and the Bundang area.

[enchoo]

CIE School in Bundang is looking for a curriculum developer/ editor and 2 Elementary school teachers

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=23332&highlight=cie+bundang

CIE is the ultimate 10 month hire-and-fire institute. Sign up if you want to get let go at your 10th month of your contract. Also, their apartments have lots of roaches and other pleasant surprises.

This happens to 90% of their teachers. Good luck!!!