Korean Job Discussion Forums

crazylemongirl · Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Location: almost there...

The number of people that come on this board asking about contracts that then get picked apart here has got me wondering are there actually any good contracts out there?

Also would you trust a document that will decide a year of your life to bunch of faceless amateur strangers? I mean really you buy house and and you go down the street to the first guy in the suit and say hey does this loan deal look good.

Looking at my own contract, I realise that it has a few bizzare clauses that would get nitpicked about here. But I have a good relationship with my school and they basically treat the contract like a piece of paper to give immigration rather than a document set in stone. So that got many wondering again, even if you have the best contract in the world that's really not going to stop you getting screwed if you're in a bad situation.

Gollum · Joined: 04 Sep 2003 Location: Japan

Gee... so you want to make jest with one of the last things Dave's is actually useful for?

What you miss are the PMs that go back and forth after such things. I often PM people about contracts so I can give my personal opinion.

I've been told I give very good information, and enjoy being helpful to others because I was once (and sometimes still am) helped myself.

Dalton · Joined: 26 Mar 2003

I am looking for my next job now. I am more concerned with the schedule, a director who speaks English and doesn't have an old school management style. I don't want a 'my way or the highway' type.

I will strike out any clause that I object to such as mandatory OT, two months notice, absolutely anything that could result in my pay or severance being one won below the contract value.

I ask a lot of questions especially about clauses that seem weird to me. Like 'Employee must be nice to all students'. That's weird and I'd want to know why it's in the contract and what it means to me. Perhaps nothing but it's still weird.

This will be my fifth school and fourth contract. I've never seen one that wasn't objectionable in some way or other. I try to reach an understanding that the contract is just a paper for immigration and that we will solve any problems along the way through discussion not contract waving before I sign anything.

The only problems I've had here weren't relevant to the contract. I remember people complaining here about directors expecting them to follow the contract to the letter while feeling free to make any changes they wished. I don't know if that's a big problem today.

Many sites give the advice of being careful about the contract you sign and this may be good advice in the case of big inflexible corporate schools. Maybe that's why people post them here. I won't post mine because I don't feel I need the advice but some contracts people have put up over the years were pretty bad. Others have niggly little things that people suggest taking out but... I think that's what you're talking about.

My best experience was with a school whose directors spoke English and had some understanding of the differences between Korean and foreign employees. No empathy just understanding. He had lived in the US for awhile.

Excue my long post but I have the week off and nothing to do today but laundry and amateur philosophizing on Daves. Very Happy

Saxiif · Joined: 15 May 2003 Location: Seongnam

crazylemongirl · Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Location: almost there...

Just some ramblings about the board. I agree that weird clauses sometimes are a red flag that things aren't all good at a hogwon... Perhaps warning signs are things like 120 hours of teaching a month while being vague as to schedules etc. Additional duties.

prosodic · Joined: 21 Jun 2004 Location: ��

crazylemongirl · Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Location: almost there...

JAMZ · Joined: 18 May 2004 Location: Ori Station, Bundang

ok so for us newbs overseas who are applying for our first jobs, it's my understanding that you are all basically saying that we shouldn't choose a school based solely on whats stated the contract but really thats all we have to go on. Its been said many times here on daves that the relationship with the director is the most important thing and contracts should be negotiated with the director on the phone (for us overseas ppl). Its the spoken negotiations that are more important.

Ok that being said what should we do if no school directors will speak with us? In my search I've had contact with many recruiters and employees from the schools but not one has replied to my requests to speak directly with the school director. Should this be considered a big red flag?

prosodic · Joined: 21 Jun 2004 Location: ��

crazylemongirl · Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Location: almost there...

Gollum · Joined: 04 Sep 2003 Location: Japan

I'm still big on telling people to come here first and look for a job. I know it sounds scary and daunting, but you can do a lot to avoid a bad situation just by coming. I did it, and I am SO glad I did. The job I would have accepted was one I was VERY glad to see and avoid.

And as I always mention, there are those who say, "But I don't have enough money to do that."

My reply to this is, "You have no business coming to Korea then. If you can't afford to escape this place on your own, you can't afford to come here and work."

I then refer them to the US Embassy website which speaks to this common problem of teachers becoming stranded here with no money because thier school screwed them.

Dalton · Joined: 26 Mar 2003

Good point.

Saxiif · Joined: 15 May 2003 Location: Seongnam

captain kirk · Joined: 29 Jan 2003

I think the best way to get a job is to be here already and look around. Because, to me, the most important thing is the director/manager. Dalton (poster on this thread) said he wants to avoid a 'it's my way or the highway type'. These types abound. Not because Koreans are 'bad people' but because it's the 'fashion'/tradition. And if the director doesn't speak English very well then, as has been said here, he or the teacher can go off having misunderstood. Another good quality in a director is the quality of mind which results from having been outside Korea. The director can then step back, having realized from having been elsewhere that it's not 'the Korean way or the highway', the foreign teacher is from 'the big world out there' and can be allowed some 'eccentricities' Laughing

A big school can be good in that there are other teachers as onlookers; the management is less likely to pull any fast ones. Also, they can't be on your case and micro-manage.
It really is possible to sign on for a year with a boss that resembles a troll. Beware.

peppermint · Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 2:19 am Post subject:

I think that postiing contracts here for us to dissect is as good as anything else- just be aware that some people have inflated views of their worth and/or role as an ESL teacher. Do as much research as you can, and network with teachers at other schools when you get here, and that will help a lot.