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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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 Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: sigh |
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| Grotto wrote: |
Actually you sanctimonious ass  The Korean labor laws refer to 44 hours a week No where does it state 5.5 days a week. |
http://www.molab.go.kr:8787/English/ladm/sub_3.jsp
Day = 8 hours
Week = 44 hours.
44 / 8 = 5.5
It also covers it in article 49 of the Labor Standards Act you have referred to already if you wish to read it from a different source.
So in fact, Korean laws does very clearly state that a work week is 5.5 days. Though this does no longer apply to companies with more than 1000 employees.
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| It also mentions that they are required to give 1 day of holidays off per week. HOLIDAYS NOT VACATION DIPSHxt. Vacation is paid! Do people get paid for the other 1/2 day they work? NO |
You insult me, yet then have no idea what you are talking about.
That very same page now lists the time off under "Holidays & Leave"
1. Employes are given one paid day a week off if they work every other day.
2. Employees are given one paid day off per month if they work every other day in the month.
3. This section lists that employees are given 10 paid days off if they work every day in the year with absence, and eight paid days off with they attend more than 90% of the time. This number was changed in the English version of the labor standard acts to 15 for 80% attendance or higher. Add one day per year of service.
This based on a 44-hour workweek.
Please note the usage of "if they work every other day" as the qualifier. A four day work week means no extra paid vacation time.
So earlier when I said 24 days off, I was incorrect in my recollection. It was 22 at first, though now it is 27. Though based on other changes in the act, I think they have been mistranslated as a number of other changes cited (such as the reduction of the work week from 44 hours to 40 hours currently only applies to employers with more than 1000 employees and not smaller companies, though the smaller companies will be phased in under these changes over the next few years).
Vacation day or holiday day, it's all the same before the law. Your crass words do not change this reality of what the days off are.
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| Annual paid leave is now at 15 days per year to anyone who works 80% or more of their shifts. Look at article 59 of the labor standards act and stop talking out of your pathetic game store clerk butt |
For employees of companies employing more than 1000 employees and work 40 hours a week with no more than the minimal time off. How many people in this forum do you believe work for such a large employer?
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Your pathetic reference to 24 days a year is the maximum amount of vacation days off that the company MUST give an employee with 24 years of service put it.
Stop twisting the meanings of the labour laws |
You got me. I thought it was 12 monthly + 12 whenever. Instead it was 12 + 10, and now for larger companies it's 12 + 15. Yes, it was a huge distortion. Holiday time nearly all of us might qualify under is equal to 22 days a year, I said 24. I am a horrible monster distorting everything. Yes, I am pathetic.
While I may be a horrible, pathetic monster, I have cleanly presented why the simple act of us having a 5 day workweek means we are getting the minimal time off we are required to have by law. So now will you be ceasing in your claims that employers are ripping us off by not giving enough holiday time?
Please do not suggest that I am attempting to distort things while engaging in a campaign of insults and distortion yourself. |
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phaedrus
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: I'm comin' to get ya.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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Of course the entire argument about law and vacation days is moot if Korean employers start thinking about employee productivity.
Only an idiot of an employer would think they are going to get anything near a good job out of a worker if they can't give them enough respect to offer them a proper holiday. |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:35 pm Post subject: vacation |
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The facts of the matter are that if you have 10 days of vacation time in your contract you are entitled to those days off. PERIOD!
My contract reads that I get 15 days of vacation + all national holidays + weekends.
Regardless of the drivel and misdirection Gord is using I still am entitled to those 15 days off per year over and above all the other days off.
So stop posting crap that doesnt apply
Contract states x amount of days off, you get those days off over and above any and all other days off |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: vacation |
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| Grotto wrote: |
| The facts of the matter are that if you have 10 days of vacation time in your contract you are entitled to those days off. PERIOD! |
Well, duh. If it also says that you get Rice-A-Roni on every blue moon, then you are entitled to Rice-A-Roni every blue moon. However, the subject was government mandated day-off minimums, not contract conditions and perks. Government minimums for the number of days off annually an employer meets simply by having a 5-day work week.
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| My contract reads that I get 15 days of vacation + all national holidays + weekends. |
No Rice-A-Roni on blue moons?
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| Regardless of the drivel and misdirection Gord is using I still am entitled to those 15 days off per year over and above all the other days off. |
Drivel and misdirection? It was not I who suddenly changed from discussing government mandated minimums to negociated contractual conditions.
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| So stop posting crap that doesnt apply |
Are you honestly suggesting that the law does not apply when discussing what the law requires?
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| Contract states x amount of days off, you get those days off over and above any and all other days off |
That's lovely. Do you always suddenly change subject matters when you suddenly realized you were holding the wrong position instead of simply saying "well, thanks for correcting me"? |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 6:18 am Post subject: what a !~ |
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To quote you:
'No.
They are required to give a minimum of 24 days off, which they are doing by the simple act of having a 5 day work week.
Any additional time off, such as the six days offered here, is above the government mandated minimum.'
A day off is still not a holiday/vacation or anything of the sort. It has to do with the maximum amount of work you can force some poor schmoe to do. Vacation time is clearly seperate from days off!
Once again your need to try to be superior just makes you come off as an ass!
Thats lovely 
What would really be lovely if you could learn to shaddup
I picked up the phone finally and contacted the labour board, after talking to them for a while they said that all full time workers are entitled to 15 vacation days off a year, that are in addition to statutory holidays, weekends, and any company holidays.
nuff said |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: what a !~ |
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| Grotto wrote: |
| A day off is still not a holiday/vacation or anything of the sort. It has to do with the maximum amount of work you can force some poor schmoe to do. Vacation time is clearly seperate from days off! |
Zuh? But the laws you pointed out earlier disagree that vacation time is viewed differently than simple days off. Or are there other laws that support this claim you are now making? I am most curious. Though I am pleased to see that you now accept that the holiday days in Korea are based on a "minimum number of days not worked weekly/monthly/annually" instead of a "bankable days based on the number worked". Seeing you enlightened to the truth even after you insulted me brings me great joy.
| Quote: |
| Once again your need to try to be superior just makes you come off as an ass! |
I would rather be known as the ass who is right than the fool who is wrong. Though technically, you are a tapdancing fool in this thread. You've jumped from "legally required" to "my contract says" back to "the law requires this, even if it actually doesn't say it", coupled with your "I know I'm right, it doesn't matter that I can't prove it and your proof means nothing because it contradicts my claims!" Rock on.
| Quote: |
| What would really be lovely if you could learn to shaddup |
I'm sorry if I inconvienced you by demonstrating that the law disagrees with what you incorrectly stated the law says.
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| I picked up the phone finally and contacted the labour board, after talking to them for a while they said that all full time workers are entitled to 15 vacation days off a year, that are in addition to statutory holidays, weekends, and any company holidays. |
On a Sunday? Oh really.
So let's run with the claim that you did phone up the labor board, I certainly hope that they said full time workers are entitled to vacation days, statutory holidays, weekends, and any company holidays. I don't believe anyone here has suggested otherwise (though it is my understanding of the law that the 15 days holidays only apply to larger companies at the moment).
Anyway, let's look at what "the law" says a company must do. And for this example, let's pretend we're talking about a small langauge school and their foreign teacher. The employer must do three things:
1. Give that person one day off per week. No issues, pretty simple. Let's pretend that they give every Sunday off. Great, no problems at #1.
2. Give one day off per month. Ok, no problems so far. Legally in Korea an employer can require an employee to work one 5 day week and then one 6 day week. They can also require a true 5.5 day week, but we'll go with whole days for simplicity. Now the employer can knock off one of those Saturdays. Three Saturdays off a month, leaving 1-2 left depending on the month (generally 1 Saturday a month, 2 times out of three).
3. Now we can apply the 10/15 days a year off. Not including random holidays that might fall on a Saturday scheduled for working, we have approximately 14 Saturdays remaining where an employee can be required to work. (52/2-12=14) Technically, there is minor chance that there would be 53 Saturdays in a year, but we'll skip that for now. If we go with the 10 days off per year applied to the remaining Saturdays, the employer will have now have met the required minimum number of days off. If we go with 15, they may have to grant one more vacation day plus any extra for stat holidays that landed on a Saturday that would have been credited as being a paid vacation day.
Now I've pretty clearly explained how the law works and walked you through an example. And it doesn't matter if the school isn't open on weekends anyway as the law clearly states minimum time off, not time off above and beyond the days the business is open. Unless you have something more to add, such as a law that says holidays must be given in a block set at the employees request, we can pretty much assume this is now over.
Though I was amused by your claims of telling us to ignore what the law says and listen to you in telling us what the law is.
Better luck on your next quest to find something that 50 million other people somehow magically missed. One day you just might become the hero of the revolution. |
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wylde
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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just for fun 
http://www.efl-law.com/contracts.html
| EFLLaw wrote: |
| The Employer must give one day of paid leave per month (which can be accumulated, to be used at one time or used on separate occasions within a period of one year) and also an additional ten days of paid leave per year to a worker who has worked without an absence throughout a full year and eight days to a worker has 90% of above percentage of attendance during one year. This right is forfeited if the Employee does not use the paid leaves within one year from the date of accrual of the right to use the leave. The Employer must give one extra day for each additional year of work after the initial one year of employment. |
going by this... the contract does not comply with korean law.. |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| wylde wrote: |
| going by this... the contract does not comply with korean law.. |
As I have already explained, giving two days off a week (Saturday and Sunday) meets the requirements you listed which were covered earlier in this thread. |
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wylde
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Gord wrote: |
| wylde wrote: |
| going by this... the contract does not comply with korean law.. |
As I have already explained, giving two days off a week (Saturday and Sunday) meets the requirements you listed which were covered earlier in this thread. |
i spose it comes down to hours then.. it was said before that it is a 44 hour week here..
if you are only doing 30 hours then i spose you can say they are giving you 1 day of paid vacation per month by not working saturday..
being that this is a salary job and your contract states the number of hours you must work a week, it becomes a bit tricky when calculating the legal requirement for time off..
i know contracts are basically worthless here but it seems if your contract says you must work 30 hours per week and you do that, i feel that 6 days of paid vacation breaks korean law..
remembering that this is not actually "time off" but "paid vacation".
if your contract said "normal korean working week", the time off you mentioned would be covered.. but it doesn't..
i don't know the correct answer but i haven't posted for 2 weeks so i thought i'd stick my nose in here..
btw.. if the housing was reasonable, that contract sounds ok to me.. what about getting money instead of the housing? you could always get your own joint..
6 classes a day, 5 days for 2.2.. better than a lot i have seen |
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Squid
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
Location: Sunny Anyang
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| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| And Gord wins another devoted fan |
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jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:32 am Post subject: Re: Would anyone agree to this.... |
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| hellofaniceguy wrote: |
| 2.2, 6 classes a day, no splits, no weekends |
I think this part will snare a few people for sure. Overall it may be good enough for some people. |
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Arthur Fonzerelli
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Location: Suwon
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| Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| Squid wrote: |
| And Gord wins another devoted fan |
Gord is Lord. |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:03 am Post subject: hah |
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Once again 'he' is talking out of his Southern orifice. Trying to say that a day off is the same a PAID VACATION TIME. Which it is not. He just keeps yabbering away saying that if you get a day off every now and then you are not entitled to any vacation time. Which is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
Workers are entitled to a minimum of 15 days paid vacation per year. Vacation has nothing to do whatsoever with days off, statutory holidays or the colour of cheese.
You work, you get vacation time. Which you can choose when to take. |
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Dalton
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:09 am Post subject: Re: Would anyone agree to this.... |
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| hellofaniceguy wrote: |
2.2, 6 classes a day, no splits, no weekends, you're the ONLY FT, airfare, housing sucks, housing sucks, did I say housing sucks, severance and the best part of all
VACATION! 6 days!
The owner told my buddy...take it or leave. That's our offer. "We have many teachers wanting to work here." |
I would think of turning it down because of the 'take or leave it' statement.
As for the holidays, Ive never seen a contract that offered less than 10 days paid vacation. The translated Labour Laws have been posted on this board in the past and 10 days paid vacation were definitely on it. Maybe that law has changed? Perhaps the translation was incorrect? Why is that clause on contracts if it's not required to be there. Sounds very un-Korean to me. |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: hah |
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| Grotto wrote: |
Once again 'he' is talking out of his Southern orifice. Trying to say that a day off is the same a PAID VACATION TIME. Which it is not. He just keeps yabbering away saying that if you get a day off every now and then you are not entitled to any vacation time. Which is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
Workers are entitled to a minimum of 15 days paid vacation per year. Vacation has nothing to do whatsoever with days off, statutory holidays or the colour of cheese. |
You insult me and then make claims that are not supported by the laws already linked to in this thread. The laws cited here clearly state that the employer has the final say for when paid time off is given, so I am curious where these other laws are that state that these laws are incorrect and that the employee alone chooses the days.
Though if you know of any laws that do in fact say that the employee alone chooses when they may take their paid "vacation time" and can demand it in blocks, then we can all accept your claims quite easily.
I suspect that you don't actually have any evidence to support your claims or else you would have simply presented that in support of your opinion instead of being reduced to and entirely dependant on petty name-calling.
| Quote: |
| You work, you get vacation time. Which you can choose when to take. |
The Labour Standards Act disagrees with you:
Article 59: Section 5:
An employer shall grant paid leave pursuant to Paragraphs (1) though (4) upon request of a worker, and shall pay ordinary wages with employment rules or other regulations : Provided, that the period concerned may be altered, in case it might cause a serious impediment to the operation of the business to grant paid leave at a time when the worker requests.
One can ask for when they would like part of their time off, but the employer has the final say on if it's a yay or nay. |
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