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| Why are soldiers better than teachers??? |
| 1. money |
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5% |
[ 2 ] |
| 3. benefits |
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5% |
[ 2 ] |
| 4. How they treat women |
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10% |
[ 4 ] |
| 5. their way of thinking (open-mindedness) |
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7% |
[ 3 ] |
| 6. Handsomeness, ruggedness |
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27% |
[ 11 ] |
| 7. Way of thinking |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| 8. not mentioned on the poll |
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45% |
[ 18 ] |
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| Total Votes : 40 |
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| Author |
Message |
Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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 Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:10 am Post subject: yes |
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I see the anology. Not entirely correct, but not entirely incorrect either.
I never advised any of my Korean female friends not to meet GI's, but I always say 'be careful'. |
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shortskirt_longjacket
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Location: fitz and ernie are my raison d'etre
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| Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 1:01 am Post subject: Re: Observation |
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| new horizons wrote: |
GIs = Frat Guys
Think about it. |
so true. the army men have their own brotherhood, complete with code words, secret handshakes, etc. (or the equivalent). it's just like back at my unversity: "sigma chi is better because we do such-and-such." "infantry is better because we do such-and-such."
the behavior and the motivations all seem to be the same.
GIs are, for the most part, young, uneducated men who are trained to use guns and trained to think that that makes them pretty cool.
not the kind of company i like to keep.
as for them treating women better than some esl teachers: it doesn't come from a respect for women, it comes from them thinking that women aren't as capable as men so therefore they need the door opened for them, their meal paid for, etc. etc. plus, they realize the kind of tail they're chasing respond to that kind of behavior. they want the hoochies who are more interested in being treated like a princess than they want an equal partner.
i'm generalizing, of course. lambast me for it if you will. |
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new horizons
Joined: 25 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:36 am Post subject: Re: Observation |
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| shortskirt_longjacket wrote: |
| new horizons wrote: |
GIs = Frat Guys
Think about it. |
so true. the army men have their own brotherhood, complete with code words, secret handshakes, etc. (or the equivalent). it's just like back at my unversity: "sigma chi is better because we do such-and-such." "infantry is better because we do such-and-such."
the behavior and the motivations all seem to be the same.
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Not only is it the same indoctrination tactics, it is the same age group. They get them while they are young and dumb and start the brainwashing procedure, be it rush (hazing) or boot camp (major hazing). The kids then spend the next four to six years living in a predominately male environment, the fraternity house or the barracks, marinating in testosterone where the things learned during indoctrination are reinforced. (Yes, this applies to the women, too.) Finally, they are released into the world where they still depend on the brotherhood for networking but, its total influence is diluted. Or they continue within the organization. But as you move up the rules change, people mature.
The biggest difference is that people want to join fraternities and pay big bucks to do so. The service, on the other hand, is often a last option for the enlisted. For many, realistically, it is the only way they can afford to go to college.
The service is great. "Free" college, awesome benefits, even help buying your first house. All you have to do is survive and these perks and many more will be yours. |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Observation |
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| shortskirt_longjacket wrote: |
as for them treating women better than some esl teachers: it doesn't come from a respect for women, it comes from them thinking that women aren't as capable as men so therefore they need the door opened for them, their meal paid for, etc. etc. plus, they realize the kind of tail they're chasing respond to that kind of behavior. they want the hoochies who are more interested in being treated like a princess than they want an equal partner.
i'm generalizing, of course. lambast me for it if you will. |
I'm wondering where it came from is all. I don't equate basic manners like holding the door for someone with a come on, and I'm pretty sure neither do most people. Perhaps we have very different definitions of respect. |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: Observation |
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| peppermint wrote: |
| shortskirt_longjacket wrote: |
as for them treating women better than some esl teachers: it doesn't come from a respect for women, it comes from them thinking that women aren't as capable as men so therefore they need the door opened for them, their meal paid for, etc. etc. plus, they realize the kind of tail they're chasing respond to that kind of behavior. they want the hoochies who are more interested in being treated like a princess than they want an equal partner.
i'm generalizing, of course. lambast me for it if you will. |
I'm wondering where it came from is all. I don't equate basic manners like holding the door for someone with a come on, and I'm pretty sure neither do most people. Perhaps we have very different definitions of respect. |
Motivations for 'gentlemanly' behaviour are very difficult to judge, unless someone straight out tells you. I do it sometimes, and other times I don't.
I usually pay when I go out with a girl, but not always. With 1 friend, I always do, but that's because she is unemployed. |
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shortskirt_longjacket
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Location: fitz and ernie are my raison d'etre
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| Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: Observation |
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| peppermint wrote: |
| shortskirt_longjacket wrote: |
as for them treating women better than some esl teachers: it doesn't come from a respect for women, it comes from them thinking that women aren't as capable as men so therefore they need the door opened for them, their meal paid for, etc. etc. plus, they realize the kind of tail they're chasing respond to that kind of behavior. they want the hoochies who are more interested in being treated like a princess than they want an equal partner.
i'm generalizing, of course. lambast me for it if you will. |
I'm wondering where it came from is all. I don't equate basic manners like holding the door for someone with a come on, and I'm pretty sure neither do most people. Perhaps we have very different definitions of respect. |
i don't deny the presence of common decency. i don't deny that many men open doors for their ladies on a regular basis as a sign of respect. the GIs seem to make rather a production about it, however. at least from my experience which, as is the case with everyone, is limited only to my own.
i don't like it when i see GIs open doors for girls and then turn and wink at them and say, "how do you like that? quite the gentleman, i am." (yes, i have seen this happen before.) they're just plain working it. it's not a matter of inherent respect for some GIs.
but this is all my own opinion. plenty of people out there to disagree with me, i'm sure. |
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Voyeur
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:02 am Post subject: |
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Not that I am perfect or even manage to keep the right frame of mind 24./7.
But I do know that at least in theory a guy that is attractive to a lot of women will always chuckle at these kinds of discussions. He will even be willing to say that his group is inferior to "the competition" in general if he feels that this true - "in general" because he will be confident that "in general" never applies to him and that he is by all standards *exceptional* |
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Alpha
Joined: 24 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 2:59 am Post subject: |
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Having spent five years in the Navy, and reading generalizations, and sarcastic comments about the military, I feel somewhat compelled to respond. I agree with shortskirt_longjacket that military is a kind of fraternity, largest in fact, full of traditions that I liked and detested. I will also agree to certain extent that most Enlisted are uneducated. However, there were some of us that did pursue higher education while in the service. We were an extreme minority, but consider that a lot of times people worked irregular hours and therefore, found it difficult to enroll in classes at nights. In addition, people were constantly deployed. Also, as one can imagine, life in the military is pretty stressful. A lot of people found it too difficult to attend college at nights after having worked all day (my typical schedule looked like this: I was at work by 6:30a.m, and left work at 4:45p.m, drove straight to school to be in class by 6:30p.m, and by the time I came home, it would be around 9:45p.m, after eating, it would be after 10:00p.m, this was Mon-Thur.) I took night classes for four years, and it seemed like I had no time for anything else, not to mention I was very burnt out of school by the time I got out of the Navy.
As for how a typical military guy views women, I will again agree with shortskirt_longjacket that most guys do view women to be a weaker sex, and treated them accordingly. However, civilian sector is not that much different. I have met plenty of men who was never in the military, and yet viewed women as a weaker sex. Never officially of course, only in the company of other men. I knew guys in the military who were wife/girlfriend beaters (not just Korea,) but I am sure civilian sector had them as well. It just seemed like there were higher percentage of them in the military compared to the civilian sector. Perhaps, the military training, and culture has some cause and effect on it. Kudos to anyone that can make their marriage, and relationship work in the military because deployment, uncertainties, and low pay put tremendous strain in relationships which maybe the reasons why military people have one of the highest divorce rates compared to other professions.
| new horizons wrote: |
Not only is it the same indoctrination tactics, it is the same age group. They get them while they are young and dumb and start the brainwashing procedure, be it rush (hazing) or boot camp (major hazing). The kids then spend the next four to six years living in a predominately male environment, the fraternity house or the barracks, marinating in testosterone where the things learned during indoctrination are reinforced. (Yes, this applies to the women, too.) Finally, they are released into the world where they still depend on the brotherhood for networking but, its total influence is diluted. Or they continue within the organization. But as you move up the rules change, people mature.
The biggest difference is that people want to join fraternities and pay big bucks to do so. The service, on the other hand, is often a last option for the enlisted. For many, realistically, it is the only way they can afford to go to college.
The service is great. "Free" college, awesome benefits, even help buying your first house. All you have to do is survive and these perks and many more will be yours. |
You must keep in mind that without the indoctrination, military couldn't function properly. Military has to tranform individuals from all walks of life with different ideologies, up bringing, perceptions, etc, etc, into a collective, and cohesive unit that can go to war. Without bootcamp, and subsequent military education, men will not willingly put themselves in harms way which might result in loosing limbs, or death. Also, all of us are indoctrinated or institutionalized throughout our lives. Be it at college/university, profession associations, towns, cities, and states that we live in, and in larger context, country. You can say that being ESL teacher in Korea is a form of indoctrination/institutionalization, especially considering that all of us will have gained experiences, and perception that is, and will be vastly different than anybody else.
After I left the Navy, I didn't depend on the "brotherhood," nor did my friends. We all kind of went our separate ways. I will however say that if I do come across a former military, it's kind of like instant connection, and have lots to talk about.
As for service being the last resort, it's only true for some, such as myself, since I had no money to pay for college, and wasn't even aware that I could get Federal loans to finance college education. I met a lot people in the Navy, who came from military families (several generations sometimes,) and they joined so that they can continue the family tradition, others so that they could try out for Special Forces, or travel. What I am trying to say is that not everyone who joins the military comes from lower socio-economic class, and had no future. Also, since the economy has been poor, a lot of college graduates have been entering the military for tuition repayment, and job security. There is a strong correlation between the quality of the individuals entering the military and the performance of the economy. The quality of individuals always improve when the economy is poor.
Being in the military is not easy (grueling work schedule, separation from family, and friends when deployed to name a couple,) and college education is not free. While I was in the Navy, 75% of the tuition was paid for by the Navy up to a certain amount per year. I forgot the exact amount, but I think it used to be around $1,500 dollars. The last I heard, the tuition while serving Active Duty is free, but I would imagine there is a cap amount as to how much money the military will pay for per year. In addition, as I mentioned before, it's not that easy to take college courses while serving Active Duty. The reason I say the education is not free is because the military people earn that right by serving in the military. Think of it as supplemental perk that people get in civilian sector such as free housing, travel expenses, along with tuition reimbursement major companies have for their employee. When I entered college full- time, my Navy college fund (G.I bill plus a kickback) was not enough to cover the the college expenses, and had to get a loan. Moreover, I got penalized when I applied for financial aid because I was "already getting money from the Federal government," which made me livid, and bitter since I felt that the money was mine that I had earned by serving in the military for five years, and it should not have been considered a grant. One last thing, one of the reasons why the military gives certain perks is that typical kids from middle, and upper class are unwilling to join the military, and so it has to offer the perks to entice kids from lower socio-economic class.
It's kind of funny now that I am little bit older, I can look back at my military experience as something positive, although at the time I hated it (rigidity, strictness, conservatism, narrow-mindedness of people, rules, and regulations for everything) and looked down upon many people in it. I can now say that the people in the military serve a vital function in our society, and am thankful that they are doing things that most of us are unwilling to do. I realize that we have been "indoctrinated" in Western way of thinking to categorize everything, and draw basic generalizations, and assumptions based on that category, but don't resort to pissing on all military guys based on limited experience and knowledge, or women who want to date military or Korean men. |
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kiwioutofthenest
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| I like that when you fly an Ajossi the bird and he comes running at you ready to kick your arse, the token GI grabs him by the throat (with one hand) and throws him out the door.....when ask to leave we just say "Na"...the best thing that afterwards the non GI boyfriend would say "you have to stop drinking, you embarass me" whereas the GI says "want another drink?" |
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manlyboy
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Location: Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:09 am Post subject: |
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| Alpha. I hope you continue posting here. It will add more flavour to have an ex-military guy's perspective on things. |
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