Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Homer]

FT Union is not feasable.

The reasons why were aptly stated in this thread allready and in many other threads before this.

As for the comment about being a foreigner when negociating...what does that have to do with anything?

Any sane and minimally intelligent person knows that they are a foreigner..I guess the term "Foreign Teacher" would tip them off eh?

Once you take that obvious statement of fact out of the way, how does this change the fact that experience and negociation coupled with research will land you a better job?

RR,

Once again, nice list of facts.
However, I and many others with experience and who did some research have found better jobs over the years.

This is called banking on your experience. Of course this experience has to be quality experience (i.e. backed up by references from former employers and by a solid set of educational credentials).
Simple time in the job does not equate with quality as you know RR.

[peemil]

Yeah... I signed for my third year. After the first year I asked and got 1.9 but this year. I know what the school and the boss is like.... So I didn't ask.

Jesus. Fair is fair. I only work 4 and half hours a day. In at 1:00 out at 5:30. Straight through.

If I leave this job who is going to give me a schedule like that in a hagwon?

[lookingtoteach]

What's with the second and third year returns only making 1.9? In my first contract right out of university, I was making 2.0. Of course I did run from it after four months because the supervisor was a total and complet jack a.ss. I think I would have settled for 1.9 if the supervisor/director would stay off my case.

[Homer]

Looking,

There is much more to a job then the salary.

Also, that 1.9 figure might be based on fewer hours.

[Butters]

Trying to 'niggosheeight' my way into a 3rd contract.

[TheUrbanMyth]

[prosodic]

[Real Reality]

Homer,

Would you please post a salary schedule for Korean professors?
If you feel to burdened to type out the information, please provide a link
to the webpage (or pdf file) that shows the official university salary schedule.

Do you need an example?
Here are some salary ranges for American professors.
(The salaries are in US$.)
ASSISTANT PROFESSOR
monthy: 4,540 ..... 5,349 ..... 9,264
annually: 54,480 ..... 64,188 ..... 110,952

ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR
5,221 ..... 6,157 .... 10,157
62,652 ..... 73,884 ..... 121,884

PROFESSOR
6,608 ..... 7,800 ..... 10,642
79,296 ..... 93,600 ..... 127,704

SUBSTITUTE
INSTRUCTIONAL FACULTY
ASST/INSTRUCTOR $53/HR. - LECTURE
$36/HR. - LAB OR ACTIVITY
ASST PROFESSOR $55/HR. - LECTURE
$38/HR. - LAB OR ACTIVITY
ASSOC PROF/PROF $58/HR. - LECTURE
$39/HR. - LAB OR ACTIVITY
Calafornia State University
Salary Schedule
http://www.calstate.edu/hrpims/Salary/SalarySchd20040819.pdf
UC
http://www.ucop.edu/acadadv/acadpers/tab0102/table1.html

[Homer]

No thank you RR.

Why would I?

Plus...even with an M.A., we are not professors and not eligible for tenure.

PHD + research and publications + significant contribution to the advancement of knowledge in your given field it required for that.

Hence not applicable to 99% of FT in Korea.

[Real Reality]

Homer,

Please post a salary schedule of "real" Korean professors?
Is there one? Why not? Korea is very interested in placing information on the Internet, right?

Did you notice this?
SUBSTITUTE
INSTRUCTIONAL FACULTY
ASST/INSTRUCTOR $53/HR. - LECTURE
$36/HR. - LAB OR ACTIVITY
ASST PROFESSOR $55/HR. - LECTURE
$38/HR. - LAB OR ACTIVITY
ASSOC PROF/PROF $58/HR. - LECTURE
$39/HR. - LAB OR ACTIVITY

Homer,
I found these Korean professors from three Korean universities without doctoral degrees. They seem to have some rank in the university. I intentionally left out names (__ __ __). The highest degree earned is noted.
Department: Archeology
1. Rank: Associate Professor / Name: __ __ __ / Degree: Master of Archeology
Arts
1. Assistant Professor / __ __ __ / Master of Arts
Economics
1. Professor / ___ ___ ___ / Master of Business Administration
2. Professor / ___ ___ ___ / Master of Arts in Management
Education
1. Professor / __ __ __ / Master of Arts
English Language and Literature
1. Professor /___ ___ ___/ Master of Arts in English
Finance
1. Professor / ___ ___ ___ / Master of Business Administration
Fine Arts
1. At one university 12 professors have Master of Fine Arts. 1 Full, 5 Associate, 6 Assistant (none of them have a Ph.D.)
2. Assistant Professor / __ __ __ / Master of Arts
3. Professor / ___ __ __ / Bachelor of Fine Arts
German Language and Literature
1. Professor / __ __ __/ Master of Arts
Japanese Language and Literature
1. Associate Professor / __ __ __ / Master of Arts
2. Professor / ___ __ / Master of Arts
Music
1. Associate Professor / __ __ __/ Bachelor of Music
2. Professor / __ ___ ___/ Bachelor of Music
3. At one university 10 professors have masters�� degrees.
Natural Sciences (Biology)
1. Professor / ___ ___ ___/ Master of Science
Physical Education
1. Professor / __ ___ ___/ Master of Physical Education
2. Professor / __ __ ____/ Master of Arts
3. Professor / ___ __ __/ Master of Arts
Sociology
1. Professor / ___ __ __/ Master of Sociology
2. Professor / __ ___ __/ Master of Arts in Sociology
3. Professor / ___ __ __/ Master of Arts in Sociology
4. Professor /__ __ __ / Master of Arts in Sociology

I have been involved in various academic processes, including the examination of both master's and doctoral theses. To my knowledge, there has never been a single case in Korea where a Ph.D. candidate has failed to obtain his or her degree. Speaking as a Korean professor, however, I acknowledge that not all theses submitted are necessarily outstanding. I think that the reason for this is a sentiment widespread in Korean society. In making an important decision for the award of a degree, we often ask ourselves, "How can you dare to fail a candidate?" This deep-rooted custom is derived from a combination of sentiment and manners and has tarnished university competitiveness as well as producing incompetent scholars and scientists.
The writer is an assistant professor of Pukyong National University's division of electronics, computers and telecommunications.
The Korea Herald
http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2004/07/01/200407010011.asp

Money key to teaching posts
Nearly one in five said colleges refused to offer them a position if they did not make a donation to the school foundation or development fund. Private universities were reportedly more likely to demand money than public colleges.
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200207/09/200207090054252629900090409041.html

[mindmetoo]

We all well know what we bring to the hagwon table. We bring our skin and hair color and our clear English speaking voice.

I think the only way you can use experience to negotiate a higher wage is within your own school. "I've built a nice following of students, they're happy, their parents are happy, if I leave are you sure you'll find someone as spanky good as me? You might just get some loser..." So. Peace of mind. That's gotta be worth an extra 100K a month. If you can't make that kind of argument at your school, you should ask yourself if your "experience" is really worth more.

The union idea is impossible. That would mean ESL teachers working together. We barely want to be on the same subway car with each other. Unions only work when the threat of a walk out would disrupt the quality. Replacement workers turn out bad cars that piss off customers, for example. Replacement airline mechanics put the fan blades on the wrong way and kill passengers. So in many industries it's in the interest of management to keep a cadre of experienced, happy, paid-enough-to-care workers on staff.

As far as work quality goes at hagwons, see my first paragraph regarding a need for quality.

And as I've said before, if you think you deserve 2.5 mil or more you're ignoring the fact there are thousands of 22 year olds with history BAs, no jobs in North America, a love for Asian women, and are happy to take your job for 1.5 mil.

Am I the only one who thinks 2 million won a month and a free apartment for a part time job is more than adequate?

[crazylemongirl]

When I was looking for a job last year I got a couple of offers over 2.5, but I took a job that paid less for a number of reasons.

First was stabilty. I have never had an issue with pay, accomdation or constant schedule changes at my gig. Also given the state of the hogwon industry at the moment, I would be more than a little worried that if I signed on at a place today will it still be there next year. My school defintly will be. Extra money in the short term in the form of higher salary really isn't worth it if I'm going to be stressed out by a bad working enviroment.

Second was I wanted to try a different teaching enviroment. My small group teaching is ok, but my current enviroment has really improved my classroom management techniques as I'm in classes of 40+ It's been good for me as a teacher to try something new.

Third was vacation. I get a better deal on days off then I get in hogwon.

I think a lot of people come here so focused on the salary they forget about important things like quality of life. A year is a long time to spend in a bad working enviroment for an extra hunderd k or so a month that you will probably spend at the bars to deal with the extra stress.

[VanIslander]

A director of a hagwon in another city joined our dinner party one night in a restaurant and during conversation said he prefers to hire new teachers every year because, in his many years of experience, new teachers have a lot more energy and enthusiasm than those who have signed on for a second year. He also said the only reasons why he often offers a second year contract is because it's hard to find a new teacher even when going through a recruiter and he doesn't want to get someone who'll pull a midnight run.

I agreed with him.

I added that it's good for students to be exposed to different teachers from different countries over the average two or three years of classes at a hagwon, rather than just be taught by one foreigner from one place. (Especially when most foreign teachers are useful for helping foster the development of pronunciation and conversation skills rather than the learning of grammar.)

So, if there's a yearly turnover of ESLers in the hagwon industry, it may be a good thing. We needn't assume that higher pay for seniority will result in better productivity overall, though of course some ESLers maintain their energy and enthusiasm and interest of their students while teaching much better over time.

[Real Reality]

VanIslander,

You live on an island, right? Are you "sealed away" from the rest of the world?

Have you ever heard of Logan's Run?

LOGAN'S RUN
"Sometime in the 23rd century....the survivors of war, overpopulation and pollution are living in a great domed city, sealed away from the forgotten world outside. Here in an ecologically balanced world, mankind lives only for pleasure, freed by the servo-mechanisms which provide everything. There's just one catch. Life must end at thirty unless reborn in the fiery ritual of carousel. "
http://www.transparencynow.com/Logan/logtable1.htm

http://www.stellar-database.com/non-ISDB/LogansRun.html#in_common

http://www.snowcrest.net/fox/Logan.html

[Homer]

RR...this is still not relevant to a FT salary.