Korean Job Discussion Forums

[crazylemongirl]

I have the bad luck that my desk is right opposite the enforcer teacher at my school, called KGB by the kids. A few days ago I was sitting at work and some kid is getting a dressing down. From what I could gather a couple of second years had a lunch time rumble with some first year students. After ear bashing the student for a few minutes KGB stands up and whacks him clear across the face with the back of his hand. He then pauses and does it again. This is happening about a metre or so from where I sit.

I've learnt to tolerate a certain level of physical discipline in schools as I realise that I'm not back at home anymore. But the level of force used on a 14 year old for a lunchtime rumble was nasty. Even some of the korean teachers seemed a little taken a back by it as the chatter in the teachers room died away for a few minutes after that.

An hour later as I came back from one of my classes I can still see the finger marks across the kids face. But the whole thing made me physically sick that I had sit there and watch it. The worst part was that I couldn't do anything about it. KGB is a middle aged korean male and I'm a foreign young female, so there is very little I can do except get fired. Perhaps I should have taken a stand, but it would have done very little. I suppose I qualify for the yellow belly of the month award.

[CanadaCommando]

Nasty situation, but don't be so hard on yourself.

What were you going to do? Your first instinct is right: We're not in Kansas anymore. Violence in schools happens. Teacher violence is a fact of life that we have to learn to either put up with, or quit.
Similar Situation-
Last month, before summer vaca, I asked a student to go to the teachers room and bring me some chalk. Now, I am notorious amongst my students for running out of chalk, so the kid decides to be funny and bring me a couple of boxes of the stuff. Head punishment teacher sees this, and starts laying into the kid, right beside my classroom. My other students ask me to "Save him from the Punishment teacher!". I step out, try to explain the situation, and say that it was not a problem. He responds and says that school is no place for jokes, and tells the student to meet him after class. Checking in on the kid the next day, I found out what I had expected DID happen...he was beaten...for a joke....

As a foreign teacher, there is nothing you can do. That teacher, as much of a bast. as he may be, is in charge of punishment. You are in charge of teaching English. You have no sway over his decisions in punishment, just as he doesn't over your your lesson plans. F'ed way to look at it, but thats the way it is. I hate it. But, thats how the job rolls.

Anyone here who disagrees with how either one of us reacted, can give up wanting to teach at a public school. Had either one of us stood up for the student and tried to made it stop, we would not only made grave enemies with one of the Senior teachers at the school (guarantee of no renewal) but also very likely have been disciplined or fired. Its the Korean way, and as guests in the system we have to either tolerate it or get out.

CLG-shoddy situation but its not your fault at all. You did what you had to do. The fact that what you had to do was nothing is the worst part. My sympathies.

CC

[inkoreaforgood]

I haven't taught in the school system here, so I gotta ask... Why and how did they choose one teacher as the punishment teacher? Or is it that one teacher loves to punish students for any little thing? My wife's older brother lived through the nasty military-like schools that they used to run, where physical punishment was handed out for practically everything. I am a little surprised that the school system still allows it, and that the students don't do something themselves (like last time this came up here, student caught a teacher hitting another student and took video with the cell phone).

I doubt a direct confrontation with that particular teacher would get you anywhere, but if no action is taken those teachers will continue to do as they have done. If anything, the problem will get only worse, as these teachers already abuse their positions of power. I would suggest talking to a supervisor, or trying to organize some of the other teachers who are also shocked by the michin gae teacher, and get them to do an intervention or something.

Honestly, the parents should really take care of the situation, but home life in Korea often supports the actions of the teachers. "The teacher hit you!! What did you do now?! Here's a little more!!!".

For a bare minimum, a little sudden yelling, something like "Oh MY GOD!!!" will make them feel a little self conscious. Good luck CLG. It's an ugly situation no matter what you do.

[barrybrown]

Uhh. PM me his full name and the phone number to your hakwon. Don't worry he will never know you had anything to do with it. I bet he won't hit kids again across the face.

I believe in corporal punishment but, not across a kid's face.

[rapier]

I bet your school runs like a well oiled machine, with respectful kids and fast-moving constructive lessons.
Don't tell me you'd prefer a return to the hagwon where any kind of behavior is permitted, and the kids can do anything they please?

Unfortunately, kids need a deterrent to keep them in line until they are old enough to realise the value of education. I disagree with a slap across the face, but would go for the cane like a shot...
But its all cultural. The cane seems absolutely normal to me. Koreans probably think its cruel, and think a slap is acceptable. Who's to say?

And, emotively calling punishment "violence", is a common mistake in the west, where schools have been reduced to out of control zoos by the lefty liberal brigade.

[Demophobe]

[TheUrbanMyth]

[crazylemongirl]

I've been in my school 6 months and most teachers carry a love stick. Does my school run like a well oiled machine. No. Most kids are good kids, and do some stupid things every so often. But that's part of being a kid. There's about 5% that cause ongoing discipline problems.

One of my problems with the Korean system is that the teachers let little stuff go and then overkill on other stuff. Eg. korean teachers have no problems letting kids sleep in class, but then you get then the kids get caned for not passing their tests. No one is allowed to sleep in my class, I might not hit them but I do draw little hearts on their faces with marker pens which they have to wear for the rest of class.

Likewise they aren't allowed to swear in class in English or Korean. It really bothers me how much the kids are allowed to swear, it seems as long as it's not directed at the teacher it's tolerated.

[tommynomad]

I agree on the imbalances of overkill and letting things slide. That situation the OP described makes me ill, though. I'd like a few minutes in a room with that "punisher" myself. Me and him and my tazer.

:idea:Maybe if he bumps your car/is late for a meeting/makes a joke, insist to the principal that a few other burly teachers "punish" him for it.

If I had a handphone/dcam, I'd definitely take a picture of the abuse--let him know that he's not operating in a vacuum. See if fear of repercussions works on the little weasel as well as he thinks it does on his charges. I'm sure not _all_ parents think it's such a great idea. Besides, it sounds like he's probably so into it he'd smile for the camera. As for the risk of not getting renewed, who cares? Would you really want to watch that for another year?

As for swearing, I don't understand the objection: as long as they're using the swear words correctly, what's the problem? My job is to teach correct English usage. I'm reminded of "Children of a Lesser God," a sappy play/movie in which a teacher insists his deaf kids enunciate the "S" in "aSSh**e" clearly, since he is trying to teach them to speak. As long as my students (I teach at a devoutly Christian uni.) use English profanity correctly, then I won't say boo. And I'll correct them if they use it improperly. One thing's for sure: I wouldn't report them to backhand-boy.

[crazylemongirl]

[peppermint]

[Dalton]

I think the inconsistency in their response to punishment could be due to the normal mental wear and tear (or stress) of doing the job everyday. Not everyone can be consistent all day every day at one's job. On the other hand their criterion may elude western common sense. That would be strange in this place .

As for corporal punishment, I think it depends on the punishment, how it's meted out and the 'crime'. Kids can be very violent, sadistic and even murderous. Maybe it's not the first time and reasoning with them is looking futile. At all the schools I attended the vice principle was responsible for corporal punishment.

There was a story a while ago in which a teacher was video taped hitting a kid and found himself in all kinds of trouble. Maybe someone remembers it or has a link. It's possible the slaps may be considered excessive in Korea but without knowing the details of what the older kids did to the younger kids I would be hesitant to get too worked up about it. This is a country at war technically. Virtually all males go into the military. I think these things affect their attitudes towards discipline and schooling here.

Bullyism is something that many societies are attempting to discourage these days. Slapping kids around may be the correct response if the society accepts it. There is an argument in our western societies that disrespect of authority and elders increased proportionately with the the reduction of corporal punishment. Others argue that violence breeds violence.

Time outs vs a timely backhand.

You're not yellow. You're a stranger in a strange land.

[Bunnymonster]

The other theory about an enforcer esque teacher is the whole boogey-man thing especially at younger ages. If one teacher is the 'bad cop', it lets everyone else be the good cop and give them one last chance before they get sent to the enforcer. That said it worries me that people would want such a job......

[Dalton]

[captain kirk]

I saw a kid, about up to my waist in height, with the biggest lump on his forehead I've ever seen, and it was growing. It happened that he 'fell into the wall' said the kids who'd just ran up the stairs with him. It happened between the bus and the school proper. So there was no supervision possible. One of the boys who said he fell into the wall was the same age but much bigger and I wonder if he pushed him, horseplay after dashing up the stairs and funneling towards the school door as if it was a race. Very nasty and growing as we watched, like an effect from a Cronenburg movie, 'Scanners'.
There's a new Korean teacher at our school, a man, early forties. He has worked in haggies for seven years. He's six foot something. One day I told him I'd made a kid in class cry (or at least the kid started crying) because I was too strict in hindsight, for that age group, about ten. He was just horsing around with a girl he was sitting beside, them tickling each other, but I'm hyped up control freak to a degree a couple of weeks since Summer intensive was added to the regular day for a month, split shift and all, still cooling down. His response was, 'so he cried, so what?'. This was after I explained it as I've explained it to you, the board. Another time I was visibly irate after a class of attitude rich teen girls and sliding uphill setting them straight, a miserable chore, and he was singing, 'what's wrong Bambi?'. . He brought a love stick today, his third day on the job after being tried out for a week. It's a one inch diameter, hollow, fairly thick walled, three foot length of white, polypropelene tubing. When he sits at his desk between classes his left leg vibrates up and down. The wooden one, while he sneers looking at the passing students, hauling up his eyepatch to scare them with his repulsive dead eye. Everything but the last sentence. So I wonder about Korean teachers and their views on getting tough in class. It's all female teachers except myself, and female management so he's feeling it, and ended up leaving his poly'P' pipe length behind when he went into class, being six foot something and all