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| Are you ashamed to walk into a McDonald's? |
| Yes |
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39% |
[ 28 ] |
| No |
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42% |
[ 30 ] |
| About half the time yes; half no |
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18% |
[ 13 ] |
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| Total Votes : 71 |
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Kain067
Joined: 21 May 2004
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 Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| batman wrote: |
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They should grow up, accept responsibility for themselves and stop giving excuses ("Oh it's genetic" they might cry. But only because the whole family is eating out of the same fat-encrusted pot. |
I would go so far as to say body weight is 80% genetic. Metabolism is near everything. Most of the people who I've known in my life that have seriously eaten A LOT have been thin. Some girls stayed with me recently that just disgusted me with how much they ate, and how much they were obsessed with food. If they did not get three big meals plus various snacks, they would enter period-mood mode. Neither were fat and one was literally grossly skinny. Bony, gangly type.
The world's biggest eater (according to Guiness book of world records and many hot dog contests) is a tiny little asian.
For the record, I'm not fat (I weigh 158 and am semi-built), so that is not my motivation for this thinking, just what I have seen in others. |
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batman
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Oh so close to where I want to be
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 9:41 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Kain067
I would go so far as to say body weight is 80% genetic..[/quote]
80% is an interesting number. How did you come up with such a figure?
And these thin girls that you mention, did they make any mad dashes to the bathroom after the meal?
Like I said genetics does play a role in that humans evolved and developed for millions of years eating fresh fruits and vegetables and unadulterated meat. For the last 60 years more and more of the food consumed in the west is processed and ladened down with endless amounts of salt, sugar and fat.
Also, as I have noted, there is more to health than body size and shape. What is the point of being thin if you can not easily walk up 10 flights of stairs?
I currently live on the 10th floor of a building and take the stairs up and down most days.
My last school was only on the 5th floor of a building and none of my students would make the trek up or down. They would always, always, always wait for the elevator.
About 10 years ago I had a room-mate. About 7 years younger then me, he was as thin as a rake. His diet consisted mostly of fast food, junk food and the like. Sure he was thin but his skin was ghostly white, pock-marked and he smelled bad (even with his daily hour-long shower). So he was thin. He still couldn't keep up with me whether we were walking, biking or working out at the gym. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Koreans and Japanese and others may be over-obsessing about their weight problems (real or imagined). But last month's cover story ("Why are we so fat?") in The National Geographic would seem to suggest that Americans (and to a lesser extent other Western societies) aren't obsessing enough. Or perhaps they're just going about it the wrong way, cos' this crisis ain't improving...
I only stumbled upon this issue of the Nat-Geo because it was among the in-flight reading on my return to Korea last month. I didn't dare open it up & read it until the passenger beside me was sleeping. (Sorry, CrazyLemonGirl, but...) She was a very large white North American businesswoman who was flying on to Singapore. She "enveloped" both armrests (without actually being able to use or even see them), and she mentioned several times that Asian airlines had the worst seating of any she'd ever flown. She was a very nice lady, witty, fun to talk with, and good-natured. She didn't even get upset when a little Korean brother & sister raced down down the aisles, giggled at her (the usual hand over giggling mouth, peekaboo, taunt & run) and then scampered off. (Which they repeated, like, 5 or 6 times during the flight, both to the "large" passenger next to me and to a family of Sikhs sitting near us...  )
Oh yeah, about fast food.... I think nearly all of Korea's overweight & obesity cases are recent and overwhelmingly concentrated in the youngest age groups. This coincides with market liberalisation since the late 1980s/early 1990s to allow foreign fast-food chains into the country, AND to the Dawn of the Internet (and those wretched PC bahhhhhngs).
The Guru |
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little mixed girl
Joined: 11 Jun 2003
Location: shin hyesung's bed~
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| crazylemongirl wrote: |
| What seems to annoy me is that is that in the warped view of some members of this board the only overweight westerners here are women |
haha, what's amusing to me is when i was in korea most of the overweight westerners that i saw were males. 
i don't think promoting "thinness" is the right mindset.
promoting healthy living is better.
yes, there are some people that seem to be able to eat as much as they want, but they don't put on the pounds. but that doesn't mean that they are healthy.
i probably have the WORST diet of anyone i know, i eat infrequently; when i do eat i don't eat veggies, i rarely eat fruits. many of my 'meals' consist of candy, pop, microwave/oven dinners or fast food.
and the most exercise i get is running for the bus.
even if my friends think that since i am thin, i don't have to worry; i would much rather be thin & in SHAPE.
and that's the problem, as i said, people are only looking at thinness.
normal body shapes vary amongst the races, so what's normal for asians might be abnormal for whites.
people need to exercise more. blaming mcdonalds for everything is just an excuse. don't eat there as much, walk to places instead of driving. don't eat huge meals. stuff like that.
i saw that national geographic while i was in korea also.
i think ppl have just gotten used to sitting around too much. and making excuses like "well so what if i'm big, at least i'm not a stick."
being a little pudgy or plump or whatever ppl want to call it is not the same as being obese.
i just think exercise is the key. lots of walking, doing sit ups or jumping jacks when u can. buying smaller plates and putting smaller portions on it so you trick your body into thinking that you've eaten more than u actually have, etc... |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| crazylemongirl wrote: |
| What seems to annoy me is that is that in the warped view of some members of this board the only overweight westerners here are women |
Trust me I see plenty of fat white males. Let me add that, with the exception of this one user Corporal, the women who come to Korea are generally nicer, more balanced people than the social outcast males who come here.
I just happened to notice and point out a stereotype: a young 300 lbs white woman mowing down on a Big Mac on the subway. If I recall, our permanently depressed Jadude was a big fat white guy in Korea and seemed to get endless grief for it: stares and snickers in public from Koreans as he matched the Korean stereotype of Westerners. Big and fat. Like the big and fat woman mowing down on a big bag of McDonald's on the subway.
I do believe all the guide books state one basic: Koreans consider it impolite to eat in public. You eat your o-deng on a stick at the cart you bought it at. You don't walk the street eating in public. It's reasonable to assume you don't stuff a greasy big mac down your pie hole on a Korean subway either.
So anyway, she was a stereotype. I'm sorry she's hefty. But nothing about the lifestyle she was displaying at that moment seemed to indicate she really cared about her excess hog fat. If my pants are getting a bit tight, I lay off the Big Macs. It's really that simple. In many ways, Korea is a fat camp that pays you 2 million won a month. If you can't lose 10-20 pounds in a year here you have only bad lifestyle to blame: you take taxis everywhere, you mow down on Big Macs, you drink beer non-stop. |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| In many ways, Korea is a fat camp that pays you 2 million won a month. If you can't lose 10-20 pounds in a year here you have only bad lifestyle to blame: you take taxis everywhere, you mow down on Big Macs, you drink beer non-stop. |
I disagree. Lots of people don't like Korean food, and it's not easy to find healthy options outside of that. Take a good look at the produce section next time you go to the neighborhood grocery store- the options are usually very limited, and often of poor quality. Almost all juices are heavily sweetened, and it's hard to find skim milk. ( I mean real skim, not the 2% they claim is low fat) AS well, a lot of hagwon owners, don't care if their employees have a dinner break, so many teachers have grab something quick( fast food) and run to their next class. |
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batman
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Oh so close to where I want to be
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| peppermint wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| In many ways, Korea is a fat camp that pays you 2 million won a month. If you can't lose 10-20 pounds in a year here you have only bad lifestyle to blame: you take taxis everywhere, you mow down on Big Macs, you drink beer non-stop. |
I disagree. Lots of people don't like Korean food, and it's not easy to find healthy options outside of that. Take a good look at the produce section next time you go to the neighborhood grocery store- the options are usually very limited, and often of poor quality. Almost all juices are heavily sweetened, and it's hard to find skim milk. ( I mean real skim, not the 2% they claim is low fat) AS well, a lot of hagwon owners, don't care if their employees have a dinner break, so many teachers have grab something quick( fast food) and run to their next class. |
I side with peppermint on this one. The Korean diet is not that healthy (low quality rice, fatty meats, limited selection of vegetables). I do know some people that have lost weight while teaching in Korea but they are the type who previously thought that a well-rounded meal meant burger, fries and a pop. Once they moved to Korea they adopted the kimbap diet and quickly lost weight. I eat better when I am in Canada and usually lose weight too while I am there. |
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Kain067
Joined: 21 May 2004
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| of course i wasnt talking about health. cancer patients are plenty thin. i was talking about obesity. it's all metabolism. no, those girls were not bulemics. neither was the thin kid who ate 5 pieces of pizza every pizza day in middle school. or the high school gymanstics team kid who ate two half pound hamburgers every time we went out to the hamburger joint. or the kid who wanted to put on weight, took that protein stuff from GMC, ate tons of ice cream, and sat on the couch, and lost weight. it's just metabolism. |
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Kain067
Joined: 21 May 2004
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| batman wrote: |
I do know some people that have lost weight while teaching in Korea but they are the type who previously thought that a well-rounded meal meant burger, fries and a pop. |
Well I can fill the role of "exception" for you. I have lost 35 pounds in 5 months, and in America I was eating very healthy. The good home cookin plan. It's just lots of walking, hiking, and not being able to eat Koean food very fast (due to chopstick complications, temperature of the damn soup, not wanting to slurp and slop noodles, etc). When you eat slower, you have less time to eat as much before your brain registers you as full. I think my stomach has shrunk here - I cannot finish a hamburger at Bennigans when I do go there. I'm basically a vegetarion here, and not by choice. But I love the food! Just wish for more variety. |
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Barking Mad Lord Snapcase
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
| Perhaps they do obsess over weight here peppermint. That can be annoying and it is much more in your face then back home. But, call me crazy here, that in my opinion can have a beneficial side effect as the social shame put upon being overweight might prevent many people from getting grossly obese (note the might) instead of being told that it is ok and that you should just love yourself. |
The problem is, "social shame" in Korea is not restricted to eating or weight gain. A little more emphasis on pragmatism and less on conformity and "face" would be welcome. It is this form of logical thinking - not "social shame" or the herd mentality - that would save Koreans from following fads blindly.
"Social shame" might be OK for keeping people genuinely healthy (not anorexic) or preventing the criminal impulse; but when a culture has a tradition of discouraging individualism or creativity, it may face one or two small problems competing with cultures where ideas are the real currency.
And yes, I agree that there is not enough "logical thinking" in the West either. The Western world will progress faster by becoming more like itself, not less. In other words, it should pay more attention to its own ideals.
I also agree that obesity is - first and foremost - a health issue and not an image issue as others would have you believe. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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Kain's post brings up a whole slew of points and observations that I happen to share. Taking a few of them (out of order),
| Kain067 wrote: |
| I think my stomach has shrunk here - I cannot finish a hamburger at Bennigans |
EXACTLY! I have no problem eating a Double Whopper w/Cheese or some other "giant" fast-food burger set meal, plus the fries & (usually just half of) the soft drink. In fact, I'll often finish it and my gf, who's by then chewed only part-way through her fish fillet or chicken burger, will offer me some of hers. (and no, I don't eat that too!  )
So there we are at Bennigans (or was it TGIF?) and I order one of their burgers. At 12,000 won or whatever, that's something I've ordered perhaps only three times in the last 10 years. I'm smirking as the waitress brings me this big serrated knife to cut the burger in half. (I mean, isn't that something Mommy did for us when we couldn't wrap our 7-year-old hands around a hamburger?)
The burger comes and it certainly is larger and heavier than the fast-food equivalent. Damn well better be, too, at that price. I put on the condiments, wait 10 minutes for them to find the mustard, and attempt to eat it uncut. Hmm.. tastes great, but it is quite big -- maybe it would be easier & less messy if I halved it.
After a few minutes, I've finished the first half. Went down fast, went down a treat -- yummm! Two bites into that second half, though, and I'm at the "ugh..." stage. Chewing on a single bite for minutes... As I proceed, I really begin to feel like I'm force-feeding myself. Borderline, low-threshold torture... Okay, that does it -- doggie-bag time....
| Kain067 wrote: |
| When you eat slower, you have less time to eat as much before your brain registers you as full. |
Eating slower does help. You'll also note that in many cultures (Continental European, East Asian) meals are served in measured courses, not in the typical "Anglo-Saxon" fully laid-out table groaning under the weight of the food, and then "1-2-3: Everybody dig in!!"
Pacing a meal not only encourages you to savour the meal time and what you're eating, but does just as Kain says -- gives your stomach and brain the time needed to accurately communicate and discuss just how much food you're shovelling down your gullet.
| Kain067 wrote: |
| I'm basically a vegetarion here, and not by choice. But I love the food! Just wish for more variety. |
Describes me and my sentiments to a "T"... almost eerily so.
The Guru |
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iiicalypso
Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Location: is everything
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| I would go so far as to say body weight is 80% genetic. |
I like the idea that 80% of my body weight is genetic. Unfortunately the other 20% is Snickers bars, Anchor Steam beer, extra cheese pizza and vending machine fare. At least I walk to McDonald's. That counts for something, right? |
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prosodic
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Location: ����
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| iiicalypso wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I would go so far as to say body weight is 80% genetic. |
I like the idea that 80% of my body weight is genetic. Unfortunately the other 20% is Snickers bars, Anchor Steam beer, extra cheese pizza and vending machine fare. At least I walk to McDonald's. That counts for something, right? |
iiicalypso, you're diabetic, right? You might want to start being more careful about your diet. Just a thought. |
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batman
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Oh so close to where I want to be
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Kain067 wrote: |
| I'm basically a vegetarion here, and not by choice. But I love the food! Just wish for more variety. |
I find this intereting. I always thought that Korea was a meat-eater's paradise. So why are you a 'forced' vegetarian? |
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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Kain067
of course i wasnt talking about health. cancer patients are plenty thin. i was talking about obesity. it's all metabolism. no, those girls were not bulemics. neither was the thin kid who ate 5 pieces of pizza every pizza day in middle school. or the high school gymanstics team kid who ate two half pound hamburgers every time we went out to the hamburger joint. or the kid who wanted to put on weight, took that protein stuff from GMC, ate tons of ice cream, and sat on the couch, and lost weight. it's just metabolism. |
I'm sorry, but genetics cannot explain the explosion of obsesity in the world, and especially in the U.S., today. It does help explain some of the difference between genetically different people- blacks and latinos tend more towards obesity than whites- but it is simply a matter of degree. But these differences themselves can also be explained by socio-economic differences- poor people tend to eat badly, regardless of race, but percentage-wise more blacks and latinos are poor, so that has to be factored into the equation.
There are so many things involved in the obesity problem- a society of instant gratification, high levels of stress, a manufactured-food system based on corn (check the ingredients on almost everything- including the chicken, salmon and beef you eat, and you will find corn, and this is a new phenomenon in the last 40 years), a sedentary life spent sitting in front of a screen- television or computer, and serving sizes fit for a family.
Genetics enters into how well you manage the situation, so does discipline, but the general culture is the same. I am genetically predisposed to being thin, or at least lean, but it takes work, self-denial, and discipline to maintain my weight, and still every few years I have to work off the extra pounds that slide on. |
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