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| Reason for not drinking |
| recovering alcoholic/problems stopping once you start |
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14% |
[ 5 ] |
| don't like the taste |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| religious/moral reasons |
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22% |
[ 8 ] |
| don't like loss of control the night of/hangovers the next morning |
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48% |
[ 17 ] |
| medical reasons |
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11% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 35 |
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Wisco Kid
Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Location: Changwon
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 Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| Universalis is onto something: even if I did want to drink, I couldn't imagine sitting in a stuffy smokey korean bar. I don't care for the physical sensation that comes after more than a small amount of alcohol enters my system. Also, I just get bored sitting around drinking. it feels good to have a clear head and also be saving a lot of money. |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 4:04 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
It comes from the idea that alcohol leadsto, and is associate with, a lot of bad things and as a Christian, one shouldn't condone those behaviors.
For example: most people go out to bars to drink. Why? To pick up a date and take them home for sex. Christians wouldn't condone this.
Example: alcohol can lead to people doing things they normally wouldn't do: fits of rage, wife beating, sex with a stranger, etc. Christians believe that it is better to be in control of your actions.
These are just general reasons. I'm sure there are more, but those two came to my mind first.
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I've never heard worse reasoning in my life ( actually I have, Hi Corporal! but I'm just making a point ).
Cars are also associated with horrific injuries and death, therefore, don't drive!
No, there is no direct causal link between drinking and and any of the behaviours you mention. Some people drink and then do those things, but then again, a LOT of people drink and don't do those things. One doesn't lead to the other in the majority of cases. A hell of a lot of very conservative and proper family oriented responsible people love to have a drink or two at a social get together. The booze doesn't seem to turn these respectable lawers, doctors, teachers, businessmen etc into raging demons. No connection, hopeless thesis. Alcohol is about how you use it.
To Beaver, alcohol is a depressant, it lowers social inhibitions. It does not put anything into you that is not already there. It simply strips away the layers of social conditioning, getting you closer to the id or pure being. If you become aggressive when drunk, that is because there is aggression in you that is normally repressed. Alcohol doesn't make you a different person, it brings out another side of your being. And for most people this is fine, for some it's ugly, and it's those people that should not drink.
To all the people that don't drink because they "don't like drunks or being drunk". Get a grip. Who ever said you have to get drunk to enjoy alcohol? It's the oldest known social lubricant in the known universe. And by far the majority of people drink to relax socially and don't end up on the floor. All it takes is abit of experience in knowing when to stop, and a bit of maturity. Alcohol is fantastic socially and really helps people drop the normal personal barriers that grown up working life forces us to aquire. It helps people to open up and bond and share great times together.
I know how to drink. I drink ALL night, till 6am, and NEVER get drunk enough to vomit or fall over, ever. Reason? Pacing ... |
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justagirl
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Cheonan/Portland
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:55 am Post subject: |
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Ok, perhaps I'm not the best person to explain the Christian mindset when it comes to why they can oppose drinking. I just copied this from my church's "articles of faith," and perhaps it will explain a bit better than I did.
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In light of the Holy Scriptures and human experience concerning the ruinous consequences of the use of alcohol as a beverage, and in light of the findings of medical science regarding the detrimental effect of both alcohol and tobacco to the body and mind, as a community of faith committed to the pursuit of a holy life, our position and practice is abstinence rather than moderation. Holy Scripture teaches that our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. With loving regard for ourselves and others, we call our people to total abstinence from all intoxicants.
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In this aspect, it's a personal choice based on a faith/belief. It's not a matter of "How much can I drink and still be a Christian," but rather, "How close can I be in my relationship with God?" If it is not benefitting one's relationship with God, then perhaps it is not the best choice for a Christian. That is between God and that person, though.
Personally, I don't think that it is morally wrong to drink alcohol. However, I do think that many things happen because people drink. If it's stripping one's layers down to pure being which then causes pain to one's self or others, then it is a problem. This is what kiwiboy said.
Of course people are going to have different opinions on drinking (which is different from drunkeness although you can't get drunk without first drinking), and that's fine.  I was just trying to explain a bit of the reasoning behind Christians not being strong supporters of alcohol.
cheers, 
justagirl |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| In this aspect, it's a personal choice based on a faith/belief. |
Classic example of "holy roller" type christians making stuff up as they go. A "true" christian follows the bible, which states, if memory serves, "Be ye not drunken", ie don't over consume. NOWHERE in the bible does it ever say "Do not drink alcohol". |
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The Man known as The Man
Joined: 29 Mar 2003
Location: 3 cheers for Ted Haggard oh yeah!
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| In this aspect, it's a personal choice based on a faith/belief. |
Classic example of "holy roller" type christians making stuff up as they go. A "true" christian follows the bible, which states, if memory serves, "Be ye not drunken", ie don't over consume. NOWHERE in the bible does it ever say "Do not drink alcohol". |
Correct.
Of course, it also doesn't say to abstain from alcohol when preggers, but Joe's mom didn't know that and he turned out alright. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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"Religious/moral" reasons received the second highest number of votes among the (admittedly miniscule) total number of votes cast.
Just curious... Of the eight people who cited "religious/moral" reasons not to drink, do any of you have moral reasons that are wholly unrelated to religion? Or are all these eight people able to say:
I'm a muslim, so I can't drink alcohol.
I'm a Mormon, so I can't drink alcohol (or coffee or tea or coke or...).
I'm a member of this bizarre, renegade, excommunicate sect of Korean Christianity that believes a bunch of things that would surprise you, one of the many being that God, Jesus Christ or the Grand All-knowing Founder of our sect (not sure which...maybe all three) told us that Christians are not allowed to drink alcohol. (or smoke cigarettes, I've often been told)
If you are opposed to drinking for "religious/moral" reasons, but you're not from one of these three groups above, who then might you be?
For example, are there atheists out there who oppose drinking on some sort of moral grounds? And if so, what are they?
Me, I can't vote. I have no reason to abstain. I suppose in some unique cases -- like if you knew you had to drive afterwards, and there was no way around that -- I could argue against drinking (to excess) on the moral grounds that it is not right to risk injuring or killing someone else by your recklessness.
But that's about it. What other "moral" (not religious) reasons are there not to drink?
The Guru |
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Mashimaro
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: location, location
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
But that's about it. What other "moral" (not religious) reasons are there not to drink?
The Guru |
If you are female you may not want want men taking advantage of you if you got drunk. Also going to clubs etc. you run the small risk of someone drugging your beverage and raping you. They are not my reasons, I'm not even female but they are genuine potential problems when drinking in bars or clubs.
Does these count as moral reasons? |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Mashimaro wrote: |
| JongnoGuru wrote: |
But that's about it. What other "moral" (not religious) reasons are there not to drink?
The Guru |
If you are female you may not want men taking advantage of you if you got drunk. Also going to clubs etc. you run the small risk of someone drugging your beverage and raping you. They are not my reasons, I'm not even female but they are genuine potential problems when drinking in bars or clubs.
Does these count as moral reasons? |
Not to my mind. They're situational, they're driven by fears about one's personal safety, and they're not really morally based. I was looking for purely moral reasons (unrelated to religious strictures) why anyone abstains from alcohol.
[BTW and before going on, we can interpret the OP's question (Why don't you drink in Korea?) several ways, though many of the posters seem to read it as: Why don't you like getting hammered in Korea? This leads to reasons like "I don't like vomiting makkoli all over myself" (you drank too much -- same goes for any liquor in any country), or "I don't like soju hangovers" (you drank too much -- what kind of hangover would you prefer?), etc.
And although the OP's question specifies "in Korea", I don't see much use in that, since the answers we're given to select from have nothing really to do with being in Korea (don't like losing control, medical reasons, religious/moral reasons).]
I'd classify those things you've mentioned, Mashimaro, as being personal-safety reasons, not moral ones. They involve the potential risks (to women) of being drugged and sexually assaulted because of the particular locale (seedy nightclubs), or being taken advantage of by their drinking companions (lecherous male friends or strangers). However, they have nothing to do with alcohol, per se, leading women down the Slippery Slopes of Decency and into the Valley of Moral Depravity and Debasement. ("Where's Valerie?" "In de basement with Freddy!"  )
So, because there's a risk that someone might drug Valerie's strawberry daquiri at a nightclub or at a party where potentially villainous menfolk are about, she decides not to drink in those circumstances. That's a personal-safety decision, not a moral one. Her morals are not under threat -- her safety is. Presumably, she can still drink at home or with people she knows and trusts, right?
These aren't the moral reasons I was looking for. I am beginning to think there aren't any purely moral reasons not to drink. Frankly, this whole question is a bit of idle nitpicking with the way the survey answers were phrased. I just think "religious/moral reasons" is half meaningless.
The Guru |
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justagirl
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Cheonan/Portland
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, I started this thread as a break off from "Sober in Korea," just for a bit of background as to how this topic came about. That's why the post has "in Korea" added to it.
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| Frankly, this whole question is a bit of idle nitpicking with the way the survey answers were phrased. |
I'd be totally open to other answers for the poll. I didn't know that the possible survey answers were nitpicky. It certainly wasn't my intent.
| Quote: |
| I was looking for purely moral reasons (unrelated to religious strictures) |
In question--not to argue, but out of genuine curiosity, are there moral reasons for anything that aren't connected to religion, or religious principles? One more note on that, I'd run out of poll options and so that's why religious/moral reasons were stuck together--they seemed to be more closely related than "medical reasons/moral reasons."
It's not really a debate topic, it was simply a question as to the reasons why people don't drink while they're here in Korea. |
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chi-chi
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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I had a family member almost commit suicide by driving drunk.
I know people from school who DID commit suicide by driving drunk.
I am just Southern enough to be, um, prone to barfights when I drink.
(I speak from experience) 
And my luck is just bad enough for a DD to disappear if I did decide to go out drinking one night (seen it happen).
Oh yes and in those situations the ride home is a lil' scary.
Not to mention I have the tolerance of maybe a small bird when it comes to liquor.
Unlike 99% of "normal" people these days, I much prefer smoking as a vice as opposed to alcohol or pot. And it's a much more practical vice if you aren't a couch potato, and like to drive a lot.
However, it cuts down on friends a lot. People look at me and tend to assume that I'm a "party girl" or something, and are usually quite let down when they find out that I don't drink. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| justagirl wrote: |
| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| Frankly, this whole question is a bit of idle nitpicking with the way the survey answers were phrased. |
I'd be totally open to other answers for the poll. I didn't know that the possible survey answers were nitpicky. It certainly wasn't my intent. |
No, no -- I'm the one being nitpicky, Justagirl, not you or your survey answers.
| justagirl wrote: |
| In question--not to argue, but out of genuine curiosity, are there moral reasons for anything that aren't connected to religion, or religious principles? |
There must be. For example, what about the millions of atheists around the world, and those many undoubtedly right here on Dave's? Despite not subscribing to a religion or holding "religious principles", atheists are not by definition a pack of 'amoral' or 'immoral', law-breaking, decency-flouting, licentious boozehounds. Surely, a goodly portion of them don't drink at all. To those who don't, do any of you have reasons for not drinking besides "I don't like the taste," "I don't like losing control/feeling sick the next day," "I have a medical condition," "I'm broke," "I don't want to risk a driving accident," etc.?
The Guru |
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TJ
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:51 pm Post subject: Don't drink at home either |
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No, I'm not anti-drinking.
I gave up drinking alcohol many, many years ago when I was unemployed. Just couldn't see the sense in complaining about not having enough money while wasting what little I did have on a non essential item (alcohol). Then, when I found a job, I just didn't want to start wasting money again.
Now that I'm in Korea most people, Korean and Western, accept me as I am. |
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