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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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 Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| J.B. Clamence wrote: |
| What country did you go to university in, and how do transcripts work there? In the U.S., as others have said, there is no such thing as a one-and only original transcript. When you need them, you pay your university registrar's office to mail them to whoever needs them. Some universities do it for free. I have a few copies of my transcripts in sealed envelopes. The envelopes say that they are "unofficial if opened by student". So your transcript isn't even official if it's out of the envelope. Losing it is no big deal. I've sent my transcripts on request to many different places over the years for grad school and jobs, etc., and I've never had them returned (nor should one expect them to be returned). Just order some more from your university (order more than one, you may need them). |
Thats all well and good. But He has a reference from my teaching college as well. I didn't mention it so far because its not as important as a transcript..but the arrogance with which he has flat out claimed my property as his own, causing me inconvenience..has riled me beyond belief. Its the principle of the thing.
He is needlessly holding my personal documents, without permission, tp fulfill his silly power trip. I call that stealing.
The tension is building. he has refused to talk further with me. Usually I acknowledge him, but I'm ignoring him now.
Has anyone else experienced this?
The way i'm feeling right now, I'd happily walk from the place, leaving them in a teacherless crisis- I don't care about the bonus, I will not be treated like an insignificant foreigner. |
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kylehawkins2000
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:14 am Post subject: |
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Rapier,
Why don't you just forget about the transcripts? I've supplied three seperate 'official' transcripts to different employers and never even thought about getting them back. My university issues official transcripts for 5 dollars Canadian if sent domestically (within Canada).
I heard that immigration law just changed so that you must give transcripts along with your degree. I think this is to make it harder for people to use degrees from 'degree mills'. |
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Juggertha
Joined: 27 May 2003
Location: Anyang, Korea
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:34 am Post subject: |
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I guess i'm the only one who doesn't think you shold "just move on". Hell man, that stuff is yours!
Walk in there there and say.. those are mine. I want them. I'm asking nicely now.. but I won't in the future. If you press me I will go to the police have have you charged with theft.
If they are smaller (or even if they are not) i'd be up in thier face. I'm mild mannered for the most part but if you flat out steal something and hold it in front of my face.. chances are your going to feel some anger your way. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| Juggertha wrote: |
I guess i'm the only one who doesn't think you shold "just move on". Hell man, that stuff is yours!
Walk in there there and say.. those are mine. I want them. I'm asking nicely now.. but I won't in the future. If you press me I will go to the police have have you charged with theft.
If they are smaller (or even if they are not) i'd be up in thier face. I'm mild mannered for the most part but if you flat out steal something and hold it in front of my face.. chances are your going to feel some anger your way. |
Exactly: these directors get too used to thinking they rule the world and can get away with anything... I'm ready to lay the full force of the police, labor board and embassy to recover my property.
The price to me looks like it could well be 2 months pay (including bonus)plus an accomodation deposit, and a years teaching effort wasted. But I'm sick of their attitude. I'm here to teach English: being flat out lied to and cheated is not in the contract. It looks like it could come to this, because I have already stated my case in no uncertain terms, but theres no budging now because their whole precious loss of face B.S. |
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kangnamdragon
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Kangnam, Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| Why don't you just stop teaching until he gives you back the documents? |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| kangnamdragon wrote: |
| Why don't you just stop teaching until he gives you back the documents? |
Because in this case it's just silly, that's why.
It's not his original degree, it's not his passport, it's his transcripts. It's what you're supposed to give your director instead of your diploma because you don't give a damn what happens to your transcripts.
| rapier wrote: |
I'm ready to lay the full force of the police, labor board and embassy to recover my property.
The price to me looks like it could well be 2 months pay (including bonus)plus an accomodation deposit, and a years teaching effort wasted. But I'm sick of their attitude. I'm here to teach English: being flat out lied to and cheated is not in the contract. It looks like it could come to this, because I have already stated my case in no uncertain terms, but theres no budging now because their whole precious loss of face B.S. |
Rapier, you and your director are like two bald guys fighting over a comb. As you've already been told, all your director has is a piece of paper that can be replaced for a nominal fee, in probably less than a week. A transcript is something you should be willing to just hand him because it's so easily replaced. I see no reason why it's worth risking your job, severance, or your relationship with your boss (assuming that matters at this point, god knows it doesn't with my last two bosses).
As for your "reference", are you talking about a letter of reference from someone else? Is it your only copy? If so, can you get a new one from the person who gave it to you in the firstplace?
The way you're talking, your boss isn't the only one who's afraid of losing face.
There's a way out of this for you that doesn't make you look like a big idiot to your director, here it is.
Order your replacement transcript just like almost everyone else here is telling you to do. In fact, order 10 copies so that this doesn't become an issue for you in the future.
Then with your replacement transcripts safely in the mail, have your "meeting", apologize for having gotten upset with him before to smooth things out for the rest of your contract. Act like it's not such a big deal. Then calmly but firmly demand that you absolutely must have them back by the time your contract is finished, as they're very important to you, and you worked very hard to earn them. This way you've offered him a graceful way out that let's him feel like he has something over you, when in reality you've given him absolutely nothing of any value.
Then get another job when you're done because your boss is obviously an obnoxious sleazeball in addition to being a big moron.
Last edited by Son Deureo! on Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ajuma
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Location: Anywere but Seoul!!
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:02 am Post subject: |
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I agree with kangnamdragon. Tell your boss "I'm really stressed about not having my transcript. I can't teach until I get it back." When you stop showing up for class and he has to explain to X number of parents WHY you aren't in class, he'll see the light!
I'd also ask for the bonus/airfare whatever BEFORE your 3 weeks is up...as a token of good faith! |
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kangnamdragon
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Kangnam, Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| Son Deureo! wrote: |
| kangnamdragon wrote: |
| Why don't you just stop teaching until he gives you back the documents? |
Because in this case it's just silly, that's why.
It's not his original degree, it's not his passport, it's his transcripts. It's what you're supposed to give your director instead of your diploma because you don't give a damn what happens to your transcripts.
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I agree, but to rapier it is a big deal and I believe he needs our support. |
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captain kirk
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:13 am Post subject: |
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Hmm. Three weeks left until the end of the contract.
The boss doesn't want to pay severance.
Maybe he's testing you to see how much of a fight you'll put up, for your rights, for the severance. But it's totally up to the boss. He can make some excuse about letting you go early. Or say your year's work performance doesn't deserve severance. He thinks he has complete control and, cat and mouse, is playing a game with you right now.
Like he's a fisherman and you're a fish on a hook. Playing you out, making you worry. He knows you're geared up for expecting, and if not getting demanding, the severance. You're both thinking about it big time.
This is the introduction to wrangling over the severance in three weeks. He wants to show you it's up to him.
After a year he knows you by now.
Just wants to wear you out over nothing because he knows you'll bite. And by severance time be tired enough to just want to give him the bird and forget about more wrangling.
I'd suggest forget about him keeping or not keeping the transcripts. Save your energy and be cool. Use the saved energy to look into severance and how to ensure you get it, your rights about that. Who to contact and what to unnerve him with over this more important issue. How to present what recourses you have. And be looking for allies at the workplace. Get into a reactive flap and, well, it's wear and tear. Takes your mind off the bigger picture, that big chunk of money.
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| kangnamdragon wrote: |
| Why don't you just stop teaching until he gives you back the documents? |
-I like the idea, but this would mean I have quit/deserted/breached contract- which would put him in the right when it comes to severance.
I've spoken to my work colleagues. My plan is to nicey nicey ask for them back tomorrow. If that doesn't work, its a case of calling the labor board and police to talk to him, I have someone unconnected to the hagwon to act as my translator lined up.
Yes, my transcript is replaceable (at cost and inconvenience to me), likewise my CELTA course official reference... but the simple fact is, we are looking at theft. He is holding my property that he has no right to, and leaving me with the cost of replacing it- all because of his stupid pride.
I know it might be wiser to let it all go, but I'm sick of them pulling these stunts, its insulting and wrong.
How can he possibly need these two documents "for tax purposes, and incase you get into trouble in Korea".. |
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ladyandthetramp
Joined: 21 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| Those who claim that their transcripts are "unofficial" once out of the sealed envelope, I'm wondering whether your transcripts bear an official university seal (stamp, if you will). I just know I could walk into my student services offices and have 10 "official" transcripts printed up and handed to me in minutes. They never placed them in sealed envelopes. |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| kangnamdragon wrote: |
I agree, but to rapier it is a big deal and I believe he needs our support. |
I like rapier, too, but the only reason it's a big deal is that he's making it a big deal.
I'd say my advice is more helpful than telling him to go on a one-man strike over this when he's so close to the end of his contract.
He needs to defuse this situation, not throw gasoline on it. |
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Juggertha
Joined: 27 May 2003
Location: Anyang, Korea
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Son Deureo! wrote: |
| kangnamdragon wrote: |
I agree, but to rapier it is a big deal and I believe he needs our support. |
I like rapier, too, but the only reason it's a big deal is that he's making it a big deal.
I'd say my advice is more helpful than telling him to go on a one-man strike over this when he's so close to the end of his contract.
He needs to defuse this situation, not throw gasoline on it. |
thats one way to look at it.. another is that someone has taken something from you. If someone walks up and takes my hamburger and when i ask for it back he blows me off... at that point i have to think of how much it is worth to me.
I have to tell ya.. most the time the guy won't be keeping the burger. |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 3:37 pm Post subject: hmm |
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I agree with Rapier.
The document is his! Period! End of conversation!
If he wants his documentation back he should get it.
I find it amazing how when you get towards the end of your contract they start treating the way-gook-in like crap. A sort of ...we have been so nice to you all year and you dont want to sign up with us again, attitude.
I say:
1. Dont do anything that would constitute breaking your contract this close to the end.
2. If you have a Korean friend, have them sit down with the owner and repeat your demands along with you.
3. Bring in the cops to demand the return of your property.
I dont think the posters who are saying forget it move on, would be singing the same song if it was your diploma/degree....or if it was their property.
One other thing to think about is whether or not your boss still has it. He may not have gotten it back from immigration or forgotten where he put it and to save face is just telling you that you cant have it. Stranger things have happened. |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: hmm |
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| Juggertha wrote: |
thats one way to look at it.. another is that someone has taken something from you. If someone walks up and takes my hamburger and when i ask for it back he blows me off... at that point i have to think of how much it is worth to me.
I have to tell ya.. most the time the guy won't be keeping the burger. |
Probably a more apt analogy would be if a guy had taken the wrapper from my hamburger that I'd already eaten. In that case, I'd shake my head, laugh, and get on with my life.
But everyone has their priorities, I guess.
| Grotto wrote: |
| I dont think the posters who are saying forget it move on, would be singing the same song if it was your diploma/degree....or if it was their property. |
If it were his diploma or degree I wouldn't be saying forget it either. I've gone to war to get my original degree back. But it's a transcript, a document that's about as necessary and irreplaceable as a piece of used tissue.
No doubt, his boss is being sleazy, but this is not an issue worth going to war over.
| Grotto wrote: |
1. Dont do anything that would constitute breaking your contract this close to the end.
One other thing to think about is whether or not your boss still has it. He may not have gotten it back from immigration or forgotten where he put it and to save face is just telling you that you cant have it. Stranger things have happened. |
Now this is good advice. |
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