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OiGirl
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: Hoke-y-gun
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 Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Maybe it's the thought process that went into deciding on Korea. Perhaps students and DDD workers thought, "I'd like to go to Korea where I can study, or work and make a lot of money for my family. Yes, I choose Korea!" Some teachers seem to have a thought process more like, "uh...I need to make some money...they'll hire me in Korea without teaching qualifications? Dude! I'm on my way! (Where is Korea, anyway?)" |
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OiGirl
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: Hoke-y-gun
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
But its hard to keep up that smiley happy outlook, with all the subtle usual stresses, miscommunications, pressure, abuses, unethical workplace practises, lies and manipulations, hypocrisy and so on. Every day is a battle in Korea, to retain your resrect, dignity, and position. It leads to paranoia- you always have to be on your guard. Is my boss going to try and scr**w me? pull some stunt on me? is the ajosshi in the street going to bump me, stare at me or what? You have to be constantly ready to handle any and every situation.
A whole lot of minor strains add up to a lot of stress in this country. |
Don't the other non-teacher foreigners experience these same strains and stress? Why do "teachers" react so much more negatively to the experience? |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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I think the key point is to avoid the negative types, teacher or otherwise. After my first year I started to become wary of other foreigners because they all were so negative, complained about their money probems, wanted to borrow money...want to steal your privates...some of them were even into POACHING your girlfriend(!). They tend to get together in small groups in bars, and all that crankiness and negativity kind of ferments. Then they go back to their jobs and pick a fight with their bosses. I tend now to be a little wary of other foreigners.
But I'm not anti-foreigner, just anti-negative people. I find I meet the nicest people when I take a package tour to China or someplace, or go to a teacher's conference (KOTESOL, etc.). Those are great chances to meet emotionally healthy, positive people who are really enjoying Korea and are into what they are doing. |
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| kangnamdragon wrote: |
I think many are bitter because they are not being treated by Koreans. But, why should they be treated like Koreans? They are not Korean!!
People complain that things are different from home. 
People complain they cannot get credit cards? Why should a bank give you a credit card? What credit have you earned?
Foreigners are not treated like Koreans and why should they be? |
People like myself who live and work in the country, ie who are residents deserve to be treated in a more equitable manner. Of course it is the right of the business involved to descriminate, but on what justifiable basis do they do so? In Korea, it seems to be on the basis of believing somehow that Koreans are inherently endowed with superior genetics and etiquitte. As for your question enquiring as to what I have done to earn credit, what have most Koreans done to earn such, especially where practice is that CCs are given out on the street? Just more of your sanctimonious Korea-appologism KD, never mind, you can play mod here to your hearts content and enjoy your sad little life, sod you.
Cheers
Jaga |
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yangban
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The Great Green Pacific Northwest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| kangnamdragon wrote: |
I think many are bitter because they are not being treated by Koreans. But, why should they be treated like Koreans? They are not Korean!!
People complain that things are different from home.
People complain they cannot get credit cards? Why should a bank give you a credit card? What credit have you earned?
Foreigners are not treated like Koreans and why should they be? |
That's right, and that's exactly the reason why foreigners in America should not get all the perks of being American; government funding, tax breaks, government protection. It works both ways. Many times, foreigners get better treatment here by the system than the natives do. They even want to let illegals get free health care and other foreigners voting rights!!! The nerve!
I don't agree the ignorant people who expect people to magically learn English in a week. Let those idiots go abroad where they can't read or write, or understand anything being said around them and watch them squirm! Let me tell you, I've been there (I'm not alone), and I gratefully make a beeline to the first ray of English light that pierces the dark night of meaningless words that was Korean. Little by little, Korean started to make sense, but was still a nebulous cloud of half meaning. I don't know how foriegners in America do it. Fluency is a long, hard road. |
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Hagwon Muppet
Joined: 18 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| J.B. Clamence wrote: |
| kangnamdragon wrote: |
I think many are bitter because they are not being treated by Koreans. But, why should they be treated like Koreans? They are not Korean!!
People complain that things are different from home.
People complain they cannot get credit cards? Why should a bank give you a credit card? What credit have you earned?
Foreigners are not treated like Koreans and why should they be? |
Every time you see the word "Korean" in this post, change it to "American" and pretend you are in America, talking about foreigners (including Koreans) living in America. How would that sound? |
I think it would sound very accurate! As someone who has lived in the USA as a foreigner many of the complaints that I hear here with regards to Korea apply equally to non-Americans in America.
For some examples:
1) Visa restrictions.... same crap in the US if not worse.
2) I can't get a credit card in the US. Nor can I do a whole load of other things without a US credit history. Want a cellphone....pay an $800 deposit!!
3) American food sucks...except for Koreatown 
4) The people are racist, unhelpful, pushy, etc etc etc - just as much as Koreans.
5) They don't like foreigners. |
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Hagwon Muppet
Joined: 18 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| jaganath69 wrote: |
| People like myself who live and work in the country, ie who are residents deserve to be treated in a more equitable manner. Of course it is the right of the business involved to descriminate, but on what justifiable basis do they do so? In Korea, it seems to be on the basis of believing somehow that Koreans are inherently endowed with superior genetics and etiquitte. As for your question enquiring as to what I have done to earn credit, what have most Koreans done to earn such, especially where practice is that CCs are given out on the street? Just more of your sanctimonious Korea-appologism KD, never mind, you can play mod here to your hearts content and enjoy your sad little life, sod you. |
Are you actually legally resident in Korea? Or just another teacher on a short term contract??
Can you outline the discrimination you have suffered from your employer? I have had lots of hassles here with bosses but there was no discrimination as they were equally incompetent/unhelpful when dealing with Korean staff too.
Credit cards are handed out on the street in the UK and US too. Guess what though??? Not to foreigners!
Double standards???? |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:51 pm Post subject: yes |
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| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
I think the key point is to avoid the negative types, teacher or otherwise. After my first year I started to become wary of other foreigners because they all were so negative, complained about their money probems, wanted to borrow money...want to steal your privates...some of them were even into POACHING your girlfriend(!). They tend to get together in small groups in bars, and all that crankiness and negativity kind of ferments. Then they go back to their jobs and pick a fight with their bosses. I tend now to be a little wary of other foreigners.
But I'm not anti-foreigner, just anti-negative people. I find I meet the nicest people when I take a package tour to China or someplace, or go to a teacher's conference (KOTESOL, etc.). Those are great chances to meet emotionally healthy, positive people who are really enjoying Korea and are into what they are doing. |
I know all about the poaching of girlfriends. I had a bottle in my hand but I wasn't drunk enough to smash it over his head and slit his throat, that little faggot.
I stopped taking my girlfriend to any places with many westerners. I just kept those 2 parts of my life separate. Occasionally, I prefer the company of westerners, but not much. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| OiGirl wrote: |
| rapier wrote: |
But its hard to keep up that smiley happy outlook, with all the subtle usual stresses, miscommunications, pressure, abuses, unethical workplace practises, lies and manipulations, hypocrisy and so on. Every day is a battle in Korea, to retain your resrect, dignity, and position. It leads to paranoia- you always have to be on your guard. Is my boss going to try and scr**w me? pull some stunt on me? is the ajosshi in the street going to bump me, stare at me or what? You have to be constantly ready to handle any and every situation.
A whole lot of minor strains add up to a lot of stress in this country. |
Don't the other non-teacher foreigners experience these same strains and stress? Why do "teachers" react so much more negatively to the experience? |
Well there is something about being locked into a room full of little tykes whose sole ambition in life is to ram as many digits up the teacher's butt as possible. 
I have met some bitter people here who weren't teachers, and also some teachers who weren't bitter. But at least for me, the biggest hurdle to get over in Korea is that I am not really "teaching" , at least not in any kind of a traditional sense. Every time I try to "teach" something, it just gets thrown back in my face, and I have a much easier time of it if I just play games, give puzzles and sort of pretend teach. That was and is the most difficult thing for me to deal with because I hate pretending.
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nev
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Location: ch7t
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| "Some waygug-in", with all due respect, what makes you stay in a job you dislike in a country that depresses you? |
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kangnamdragon
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Kangnam, Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| jaganath69 wrote: |
| kangnamdragon wrote: |
I think many are bitter because they are not being treated by Koreans. But, why should they be treated like Koreans? They are not Korean!!
People complain that things are different from home.
People complain they cannot get credit cards? Why should a bank give you a credit card? What credit have you earned?
Foreigners are not treated like Koreans and why should they be? |
People like myself who live and work in the country, ie who are residents deserve to be treated in a more equitable manner. Of course it is the right of the business involved to descriminate, but on what justifiable basis do they do so? In Korea, it seems to be on the basis of believing somehow that Koreans are inherently endowed with superior genetics and etiquitte. As for your question enquiring as to what I have done to earn credit, what have most Koreans done to earn such, especially where practice is that CCs are given out on the street? Just more of your sanctimonious Korea-appologism KD, never mind, you can play mod here to your hearts content and enjoy your sad little life, sod you.
Cheers
Jaga |
Why give a credit card to someone who is going to leave the country in less than a year? Sounds like a flight risk to me. If you max out the credit card and leave Korea, what can they do? not much....that is why most foreigners cannot get them. It has nothing to do with racism.
My life isn't too sad though since I actually have a credit card. 
Just get a debit card if you want the convenience. |
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nev
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Location: ch7t
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 2:26 am Post subject: |
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It would be financial suicide to give credit card to foreigners. Credit card companies just want to make money, that is why they exist. If they thought they could make money from foreigners, then they would. But they know as well as we do that we'd be long gone on that flight to Thailand/USA/Europe as soon as that card was maxed.
Not xenophobia, just sense. |
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kangnamdragon
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Kangnam, Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 2:29 am Post subject: |
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| I don't think foreigners can run for political office either. That must be racism, right? |
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Neil
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 2:33 am Post subject: |
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| nev wrote: |
| It would be financial suicide to give credit card to foreigners. |
I think it was LG who found out the hard way a few years back that giving credit cards to Koreans wasn't the best idea in the world.
I don't see the harm in giving credit cards to foreigners (although why anyone would want one is beyond me). I know 2 people that were tracked down on the other side of the world by the people persuing debts that they left in Britain. In this day and age with big brother technology all over the place tracing defaulters is easy. |
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Paji eh Wong
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| CLG wrote: |
I find it interesting that some of the happiest waygookins I've met here have been the ones earning far less for doing a whole lot more. The DDD workers, soliders, and students don't seem nearly as bitter.
Which leads me to ask the question. Why is that? I mean we get free accomdation, and airfares. A pretty good wage for not so many hours. You'd think we'd be sweet.
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Lots of people have come up with good reasons.
One that hasn't been mentioned yet is hagwons and your sense of worth. This won't be popular in some quarters, but lets face it, lots of people here are overpaid babysitters. I was my first year, and I knew it. I found that getting paid all of that money to not deliver on promises that were made in my name made me bitter and pissed off all the time. I didn't feel like I was earning it.
I figure most people here work in hagwons, and most hagwons aren't schools. That means a majority of FT in Korea aren't really earning their keep, and know it on some level. Some of the most bitter people I've met here are certified teachers. Who was it who said that "Either what you do every day is important, or nothing is"? |
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