Korean Job Discussion Forums

[riverboy]

Allright. I will try to be brief as possible.

Two weeks ago, I started two new night classes. On monday night I had my group of twenty four students show up. I had no idea of thier abilities so I did a university style lecture with a handout of my lecture. I then asked questions. It was split down the middle from beginner to intermediate.
So my boss came and told me to teache the intermediate class the next day. I had already done my prep for an intermediate class and was not prepared for a class so soon.
Regardless, I found a good book which relies on reading and discussion topics. I find this is the best way for me to teach as I like to listen to student read out lound and then have a discussion. The class went reasonabally well.
The following week(tuesday was quite different) I prepared a brief handout explaining prefixes and suffixes and wanted to continue with the previous weeks discussion(superstitions). Four of the twelve came in late, five of them did not bring thier hand out and I had three new students.
I had to go to the office and get more photocopies three times and the class never really began untill 7:25 (it started at 7:00).
For the benefit if the new students, I thought I would quickly do the reading over and see if they could understand it. I finished the reading. Did a few questions on the subject and then took a break.
When I came back the class revolted. They told me that I talked too much(the ones that forgot thier handouts and were late nontheless). They said that they wanted to only speak. One guy even said to me; "I don't want to dig English"
I said that I was speaking for the benefit of the new students, but that did not help me. Most of thier speaking ability is Konglish at best and I have designed my teaching to fix common Korean grammatical mistakes but they woould not listen to what I was trying to explain to them.
The same Guy who does not want to dig English told me after the class, the " My class was not funny"
I told him I was not a GAGMAN and if he wanted to laugh the go watch a comedy.
Any how, this is not my first experience with adults, but this is my first experience with adults who want to have fun and not learn.
Any suggestions?

[inkoreaforgood]

Adults are sometimes the most difficult group to teach. They feel they can ignore the teacher, and that they know better than the teacher. Another thing is that they plan to speak English perfectly about a week after you start teaching them.

Their goals are often unrealistic (strange for adults), and they have no respect for a teacher their age or younger. All the English they have learned in the past has come out of books, and they really want to speak now, never having done it before. They haven't given your class any chance at all, in fact they have sabetauged (I don't know the spelling) it effectively as well. The school is not helping you by adding students and not telling you. Very typically Korean. What can you do? Getting this class on track is going to be a bitch. They have already decided you suck as a teacher, and that they can learn English by speaking all the time. I suggest a stick with a nail in the end of it. If you're working at a hagwon, you're doubly screwed, since they are sure to go to the boss and complain and your boss will more than likely side with them. Go to the boss and tell them what's going on, if you haven't already, otherwise it's going to look like you're completely incompetent. Sorry, I doubt I've been much help, good luck with it all.

[bellum99]

Learning English is like fox hunting in England. Only the rich can enjoy it as a hobby. Every class really wants just talking and conversation. Don't worry so much about fixing their grammer and sentence structure....just make it fun and everyone will be happy.

[Sucker]

You are teaching them in their office building? If so, then (in my experience) attendance will always be poor. Other than be more entertaining and make them "want to be there," there is nothing you can do about that.

If attendance is sporadic, it is hard to give a structured series of classes, teaching grammar, reviewing and building on the previous classes.

From what you wrote, it sounds as if the students are happy with their level of English ability and just want a "maintenance class" - somewhere that they can practice speaking and maybe pick up some extra vocab every now and then.

My only advice is: they are paying so give them what they want. Let them practice their English. Go in with an interesting article, read it and do the free talking thing. Occasionally ask a specific question and get everyone to answer it individually (to give those who don't usually speak up the opportunity to talk). Give them role-play situations.

Maybe this isn't the best way for them to learn, but it is what they (probably) want to do. These guys have probably gone through a whole bunch of different English teachers before you - they know what they want.

Oh, and the guy telling you that your class wasn't funny. He didn't mean funny as in "full of jokes", he meant that your class wasn't interesting / engaging (��̾���).

[Intrepid]

I would differ with inkoreaforgood in that I don't think they all dislike your teaching style. Some will have agreed with what you were doing and remained silent in the face of vocal complaints. And, if you are teaching at a company, it's right on that you can expect attendance to plummet--and plummet to a small core of students who want to be there. I've found my first weeks of company classes to be a gigantic pain, as the American-trained executives put in their token appearance to show the lower-level employees that they also outrank them in English ability, etc. They'll be gone soon, I'd imagine.
If it's a hakkwon, though, how is it that you have 24 students!? Who would pay for a hakkwon when there are so many in the class?

[casey's moon]

Ahhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I feel your pain!!!!!!!!!!!

I've been there, to a certain extent. Teaching adults in a hagwon (Language education centre, but who do they think they're fooling?) has its good sides, but if you actually care about teaching it can be a freaking nightmare!!!

I reacted by not caring anymore and giving my students whatever they wanted. The new problems arose when the students didn't agree with each other (or even with themselves sometimes). They wanted me to correct their every mistake, but reacted defensively when I did... Some thought the topics were too hard, but then felt insulted when I introduced easy topics. Some wanted absolute free talking, but the more sensible ones knew that would never work. Some wanted to know the topic in advance and be given an article to read over (the best of them -- I married one of those students!!!) but most of them forgot the articles, and hadn't read them at home or prepared at all!!!

AHHHH!!!!!!!!!

The best thing to do is let them vent their opinions on paper. Give them a questionnaire, asking questions about what they expect from the class, what would be a good way to study in class, how much they are willing to do outside of class to prepare... then give them this to do as homework. Best case scenario is if more than half of them DON'T DO this homework. Then you can remind them that you gave them a voice but they chose not to take it whenever they try to complain. If they do the homework, that's good too. You can use what they say. If their answers vary, you can vary your style. Some will still complain, but you answer that someone asked for this method.

I did this kind of questionnaire (also asking for topic ideas) and it was an utter failure as far as responses go, but was very helpful to get my students to realize how impossible it is to satisfy everyone.

My LEC was terrible. They also had new students arriving in class for 2 weeks after registration. Students were allowed to survey several classes and choose after two weeks, and IT SUCKED.

Try not to care too much!!!

Good luck!!!!!!!!

[tomwaits]

Sabotage---a fine record by Black Sabbath.

Good replies....It's crazy when you think about it. Instead of going along with you--they start to complain at first chance. I have spent my own money on classes and would never pull this. It would not occur to me to tell a fluent person how to teach me Spanish-or whatever. In a private session I might say what I want to do. Or I might complain we are going too fast or too slow but that's it.....You must feel like saying-Hey you teach the GD class if you know it all.

[riverboy]

Oh, and the guy telling you that your class wasn't funny. He didn't mean funny as in "full of jokes", he meant that your class wasn't interesting / engaging (��̾���).
I knew exactly what he meant, but my hand out and discussion dealt directly with nouns and adjectives and he does not know the difference.
He was not even interested in his bad Grammer, What is my role as a teacher?
First, I am a teacher of English and that is what I intend to do.
Second, I try to be professional about my job I have been teaching for three years and I know what gets the best results for me and my students.
Also, I am fortunate enough to have a boss who sticks by me, he knows that I teach and work very hard for him so it will not be a problem if he addresses it with me.
The bottom line is, I was insulted by what they had to say. If they want to speak then don't waste time by being late or not bringing handouts that are essential for the discussion topics. I will devote the majority of my time to discussion, but when people do not know the structure of the language and they want to learn to speak it properly, then they have to study certain aspects.
I am not a Konglish teacher and refuse to let them speak like that because it is fun and easy for them to do it.

[riverboy]

I told funny boy to take my less advanced class and then told him when he started badgering me after class to "get out of my way, I have to go home"

What I don't understand is that if Iwere to take a computer programming class, an engineering class or an education class, then I would never think of telling my professor that he was not fun. I understand their concerns, but I can't compromise my professional ethics. Oh well, can quit anytime I want it is a privte.

[riverboy]

Oh yeah
Thanks
All were good responses

[manlyboy]

I taught adult conversation classes at a hagwon my first year here. After the first few months I came to the realization that everyone had an opinion about how I should do my job. I already had two years experience and was relatively confident in my abilities, but I wasn't prepared for the difficulties I was going to encounter. I figured that with adult conversation classes, no matter where you teach in the world, you can expect a few bad apples. Personality is important, and no matter how hard you try, not every one is going to warm to you. I didn't realize that in Korea, you can sometimes get classes where the majority of the students won't warm to you!
I isolated three main types of "spoilers": 1. Businessmen forced to be there against their will, 2. Recent university graduates who can't get jobs, and are resentful that you can simply by virtue of the fact that you're a native speaker, and 3. Princesses who expect you to coddle them just like Mummy and Daddy do.
After I came to this understanding, I made all of my introductory lessons a detailed group workshop about what we were going to do over the next month. Do you want to use the set text? No? OK. I will prepare all the materials. What topics are you interested in? Would a lesson on sports be acceptable? No? Then we'll do something else. Should we discuss topics as a single group, or split up? What do you think is the best size for each group? Let's discuss the pros and cons of pairs, threes, and fours, and then, as a group , we will determine the group sizes for this class. How much do you want me to participate in your conversations? Give me your prefered ratio of teacher/student dialog (50/50, 40/60?) and then that's what I will do. Do you want me to correct every single mistake, even if it's very minor? Should I interrupt the conversation to correct the error, or should I make a note, and then correct the errors in the last ten minutes of the lesson? Are games appropriate? What kind of games? etc, etc, etc......
Of course, I have my own philosophy about the best way to conduct a conversation class, but I learned that forcing that on very resistant students was a bad idea. It would literally jeopardise my job. If the students complained, the hagwon owners would take it very seriously. By letting students who think they know better than you decide how the lesson should proceed, they will have no legitimate cause to complain if you diligently follow that agenda.

[Squid]

I find teaching adults a fairly straightforward job. First I make an effort to understand their motivation for being in class, then work with them to best satisfy their needs.

I sympathize to a point with your having 24 or more in a class, my classes are generally 12 or less- much easier to get to know them, make friends with one or two, find things they have in common they didn't know...etc.

Spring a surprise or two on them... sure I've had the occasional boor or petulant princess, shut them up or provoke them to speak by picking on them. Correct the brighter ones more than the lollygaggers. Give 'em enough rope to hang 'emselves and eventually they will- up to you then if you help them or kick them while they're down.

That's my ramble- but I never look at the bottom line with respect my classes. If I did I doubt I'd be a very good teacher.

Have fun, life is short.

[crazykiwi]

I taught one in my first year also. six months in, a new batch arrived, full of enthusiasm, until one old "upper class snob" like ajjuma, told me in front of the whole class, that my lesson was , now wait for it..." too funny!" she goes on to tell me she is here to learn english and that becuase i was only 23, she just couldnt come to accept me as a teacher nor offer me any respect. she told me to stop making people have a giggle and get down to some serious teachin! well she left in the end and the whole class dynamic changed for the better. all good in the end but very much a shock to be told the bollocks she spun at me.

[Gord]

[diablo3]

I taught adult conversation once also when I was in Korea. In my first few months, I was in a similar situation. Whatever I did never made the students happy. I was given firstly a student textbook to teach with, and this was meant to be a conversation class, oh brother. Anyway, the students were passive, gave no conversation topics, and students were complaining even about things which were not true. Anyway, it lead to a classroom change and so it was a fresh start, and had the chance to do a complete conversation class, and no textbook to use either. Then the school went bankrupt and moved to another adult school. I was starting to develop my own style, which all teachers will do given a few months.

What really helped me with passive students were to develop my own conversation topics. It takes a little time but they can always be reused if you change schhols or students. If students are passive, then they have nothing to complain about since they never gave a topic to start with. If they have a topic, then they should provide information about it and the topic can be prepared, because it can sometimes difficult to push a topic for the length of the class if it is to be done on the fly, or you research and prepare the topic if the class thinks it is an interesting topic. In my experience, most adult students are somehow too busy or tired to even think of a conversation topic.

Give all students an equal opportunity to talk (by asking around the classroom), some may talk more and some a little less, but they all have a chance to talk.

Really, being funny is not too important but for most students they like it. Somehow, 'entertainment' is the key word in Korean classes. Most of us are not told this until we come to Korea.

Most of my topics were from Korean newspapers, so they knew about the event/article and it can be readily discussed by most/all students.

However, I was always a confident teacher, because they want to know what we know, ENGLISH.

Here is some of my advice. I hope I am of help to you and to anyone else also.