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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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 Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Another out of the blue personal attack from Royjones, nothing new there. But taking a little further this time. Basically insinuating that a board member worked as a prostitute. Do you all find this acceptable? |
No, I don't . That's pretty low. And creepy, too. |
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royjones
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Location: post count: 512
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Sorry guys, took it too far that time. |
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paperbag princess
Joined: 07 Mar 2004
Location: veggie hell
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 2:25 am Post subject: |
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first of all, let's call them sex workers and not whores, we are living in the 21st century, afterall.
sexworkers protest in most major urban centers on a pretty regular basis. in montreal, they are especially active.
if someone wants to be a sexworker, why not? whether you pimp out you mind or your body, what's the difference? what matters is if you are doing it because someone is making you (i.e pimps). prostitution is the oldest paying profession for women, and by making illegal you are marginalising the already malginalised even further. |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 2:39 am Post subject: |
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If they choose this, that's fine, but there are a lot of women from Southeast Asia, who are told they'll be working in other fields when they agree to come.
I know the USFK is trying to crack down on this, and I've heard speculation that the curfew issue might be related to that in part. |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 2:44 am Post subject: |
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Here's what I don't get. Prostitution is massive all over the world, bigger in some places than others, but basically it's everywhere. It's also illegal. So what we have is massive breaking of the law all over the world, every day. Where is the public outcry? Where is the "war on prostitution"? While "pot" is also illegal, and also smoked in massive quantities almost everywhere in the world, and there is constant public outcry from conservatives, we've got to clean up the streets, get rid of the degenerate pot smokers. Where is the consistancy?
My guess is that one of the biggest user groups of prostitution is sucessful businessmen who are highly conservative politically(not all, but that's a fair generalisation). These are the same people that want to come down on pot smokers. Why? Because it's immoral! Why is it immoral? Because it's illegal! Oh, I get it, yes mr businessman, I see it all so clearly now ... |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 5:04 am Post subject: |
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| desultude wrote: |
I actually appreciate their courage. As long as it is regulated and the women are clean, it's no one's business.
Don't get me wrong- I wish that they would or could do something else for a living. But I don't agree with making it illegal and busting working women- especially when it is being done by a bunch of hypocrits who have their own well supported mistresses (not prostitution?). |
Steven Pinker noted in How the Mind Works that male chimpanzees and baboons have been observed in the wild bartering sex for meat from females. (See Symons, 1979, The Evolution of Human Sexuality: NYU Press.) Antarctic female penguins have been observed bartering sex from unpaired males, in exchange for stones to build their nest: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/60302.stm |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
| Here's what I don't get. Prostitution is massive all over the world, bigger in some places than others, but basically it's everywhere. It's also illegal. So what we have is massive breaking of the law all over the world, every day. Where is the public outcry? Where is the "war on prostitution"? While "pot" is also illegal, and also smoked in massive quantities almost everywhere in the world, and there is constant public outcry from conservatives, we've got to clean up the streets, get rid of the degenerate pot smokers. Where is the consistancy? |
Prostitution and narcotics may be everywhere. But here in the Republic, the former thrives in the semi-open, and efforts to eradicate it are half-hearted and lack conviction; being caught indulging in the latter, however, might (under the current admin.) get you more "hard time" than spying for the North.
We'd all accept that Korean society has a more permissive or lenient attitude toward prostitution than a lot of Western societies. However strained or incongruous it may seem, I think there is a conscious or subconscious linkage in the minds of many Koreans between the traditional kisaeng and the modern-day room-salon hostess. The groups of wealthy or privileged men, the bowing and gracious hostesses, the music, the singing, the drinking, the food, the flirting, the small-talk ... these similarities between past and present are undeniably there. (I wonder how many prostitutes in the West ever sing with their customers!  )
And while Korea certainly has anti-prostitution laws on the books, socio-economically, prostitution is viewed more as a disreputable profession than a type of criminal behaviour here. Not a few kisaeng hold places of prominence and, I might say, "forgiving admiration" for their heroic, self-sacrificing deeds throughout Korean history.
Efforts to eradicate prostitution in most Western societies are akin to efforts to eradicate tax evasion -- they began generations ago, they're not temporary but ongoing, they're generally effective, and they enjoy broad public consensus and support. Whatever motivations may be driving such efforts, international shame is not one of them.
Anti-soliciting "sting operations" by police departments in Western cities have nothing to do unkind reports or snickering from the government, media or public opinion in South Korea or any foreign country. I doubt the same can be said for Seoul's latest crackdown on red-light districts (as some other posters have already indicated).
| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
| My guess is that one of the biggest user groups of prostitution is sucessful businessmen who are highly conservative politically (not all, but that's a fair generalisation). These are the same people that want to come down on pot smokers. Why? Because it's immoral! Why is it immoral? Because it's illegal! Oh, I get it, yes mr businessman, I see it all so clearly now ... |
Some liberal social commentators have argued that prostitution, narcotics and pornography have historically been the exclusive prerogatives of the very wealthy (read: "conservative") ruling elite. These 'hypocritical' conservatives�� penchant for such things, so the line goes, was always been predicated on their being beyond of the reach of the common herd. It was only when the lower classes could begin afford and indulge in these same perverse pastimes (generally understood to have occurred from the early 20th century) did the ruling elite seek to criminalise and outlaw them. This, the liberal line contends, effectively restored the status quo ante: the lower classes would be locked up for indulging in such activities, while the ruling class��s wealth would guarantee they were held "above the law".
This argument is interesting, but as with most class-based theories, it's too sloppy with the historical details it examines (or ignores) to be very compelling, particularly in a discussion of morality or legality. It��s value, I think, is that it suggests the real issues here have little to do with politics (conservatives vs. liberals), economics (wealthy vs. poor), or social standing (successful businessman vs. everyone else). Rather, they have everything to do with vanity, greed, envy, inferiority and all the other wonderfully human traits that transcend political affiilation, race, class, age, income and social pedigree.
The Guru |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| Rather, they have everything to do with vanity, greed, envy, inferiority and all the other wonderfully human traits that transcend political affiilation, race, class, age, income and social pedigree |
Rather, vanity, greed, envy, and inferiority do not "transcend" but are in fact intimately bound up with political affiliation, race, class, age, income, and social pedigree.
That is why local govt in the US can sponsor a massively expensive "crack down on crack" which is sold and consumed mainly by blacks, while businessmen continue to merrily hoover up massive amounts of cocaine from their glass coffeetables in expensive offices at those all-important "after hours meetings". That is why the billions of dollars that have been embezzled in white collar crime have not recieved the same priority as violent crime comitted by the lower class, and why when white collar criminals are caught they get name suppression, and limited punishments.
Like everything, it's all about money and power. Morality is just a tool of government to control the masses, and is not fixed, but totally malleable depending on the mission at hand. |
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Drakoi
Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Location: The World
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
Here's what I don't get. Prostitution is massive all over the world, bigger in some places than others, but basically it's everywhere. It's also illegal. So what we have is massive breaking of the law all over the world, every day. Where is the public outcry? Where is the "war on prostitution"? While "pot" is also illegal, and also smoked in massive quantities almost everywhere in the world, and there is constant public outcry from conservatives, we've got to clean up the streets, get rid of the degenerate pot smokers. Where is the consistancy?
My guess is that one of the biggest user groups of prostitution is sucessful businessmen who are highly conservative politically(not all, but that's a fair generalisation). These are the same people that want to come down on pot smokers. Why? Because it's immoral! Why is it immoral? Because it's illegal! Oh, I get it, yes mr businessman, I see it all so clearly now ... |
I agree with you, its pretty hypocritical. |
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jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| I just think it should be legal everywhere. Pot too. Alcohol and cigarettes are doing just as much damage, or more. |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 1:00 am Post subject: |
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| The thing that prompted me to post in the first place was that I figured only Koreans would protest againt enforcing the rules, and not get any backlash for doing so. The sex, well, I think I prefer the free kind. |
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royjones
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Location: post count: 512
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| royjones wrote: |
| Sorry guys, took it too far that time. |
But would a male mod have been as offended?? hmmm, the questions. |
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royjones
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Location: post count: 512
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 1:19 am Post subject: |
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| peppermint wrote: |
| The thing that prompted me to post in the first place was that I figured only Koreans would protest againt enforcing the rules, and not get any backlash for doing so. The sex, well, I think I prefer the free kind. |
So have you experienced both (free and paid for)??? |
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paperbag princess
Joined: 07 Mar 2004
Location: veggie hell
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| everyone knows the war on drugs is total b.s! alcohol does more damage over the long term than cocaine does, alcohol just has a better lobby group. |
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Ody
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: over here
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:43 am Post subject: |
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| royjones wrote: |
| So have you experienced both (free and paid for)??? |
i think we all know that "free sex" is a myth. |
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