Korean Job Discussion Forums

JW · Joined: 06 Feb 2003

Butterfly I have been blessed to communicate my concerns with many Koreans here. I have been told various things. I agree that many buisness owners are pleased to have a foriegner in their establishment. I would also agree that they are generally being helpfull when offering forks, spoons, service items or even attempting to explain menu items and cost in English. I don't think anyone here is debating that fact. I also know that a Korean can be their own best PR person. Many of the Koreans I know do not like to air dirty laundry. I am not super sencative to racism as a black man. I am just familliar with the sickness of racism. Koreans are not sub or super-human. They are not above being racist. It happens here. I was even asked by a director to refer a teacher but "not anyone black". My white friends notice the different treatment when we are together. Don't despair. Understand it.

NearlyKorean · Joined: 15 Mar 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ

Butterfly · Joined: 02 Mar 2003 Location: Kuwait

JW, I did not, I hope indicate that I believe Koreans to be above being racist. Far from it; I have seen and heard of Korean people being guilty of many ism's, racism being close to the top of the list. I am however, of the belief that Koreans are no more racist than any of the white, black and Asian people back in my native UK, but that is beside the point in this case in my response to what I felt was a very sweeping post by Mr. Whatthefunk, assuming that all Koreans are being racist whether they are being kind, or unkind to the foreign guest in their establishment, so long as they treat them differently.

For a start, this post makes no distinction between 'foreign' and 'of a different race' and there is a big difference. If I had Swiss, Somalian, Mongolian or Russian guests in my restaurant my country, guaranteed, I would treat them a little differently and take more care to make sure they are comfortable. My decision to show them a little extra care would not be based on race but nationality, language, and my own patriotism in wanting people to have a good impression of my country and city. Also, hopefully, the chance to learn something about a different country which I didn't previously know. Am I racist?

Mr. Whatthefunk asserted in short, that all 'different' treatment of foreigners was racist in Korea, and I am sure that in some cases it is, but not all, not nearly all and I wonder how Korean people can ever drag themselves out of this constant 'racist' labelling, what do they have to do? It is novel for them to meet a foreigner, because they don't meet many, and I think we ought to allow them a little slack in that. After all, this curiosity about foreigners is the same force that makes many of us a commodity here as completely unqualified English language instructors.

Pets wonderland · Joined: 09 Feb 2003

I agree with Dan. White foreigners, especially North american young males, cannot complain too much about the situation here.

minjokmanseh · Joined: 14 May 2003

Butterfly, it seems to me that the issue at hand here is not so much whether Koreans are friendly/accommodating to foreigners who're still novelties in their society - it is, as you correctly point out, not the same thing as racism and thus wouldn't even be an issue to be seriouly discussed.

It seems to me to be, rather, that they make SUCH a distinction between races so as to modify their standards of treatment, ranging from overly accommodating (white foreigners) to downright inhuman (darker-skinned factory workers). Their treatment of their own kind seems to fall somewhere in the middle, toward the lower end.

This is a far-cry from people who've had little exposure to people from other nations trying to be more accommodating. This is far more sinister. This of course isn't a uniquely "Korean problem", since any group of people with similar history as Korea's and the demographic makeup would have similar tendencies. After all is said and done, however, this does strike me as racism indeed.

minjokmanseh · Joined: 14 May 2003

Case in point about how Koreans treat each other and (counterargument to the idea that "they're just nice people who're trying to be accommodating to the helpless foreigners who're novel to them) -

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=4007&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Butterfly · Joined: 02 Mar 2003 Location: Kuwait

Tiger Beer · Joined: 07 Feb 2003

Hmm.. alot of interesting posts.. I think on the whole Korea is just as racist as anywhere else.. not worse and definetely not less..

I have had encounters here and there and everywhere.. i've also had alot of over-compensation in the other extreme..

Regarding non-white foreigners who are here.. i'm not too sure about african-experience.. but regarding the statement that southeast asian skin, etc.. well, one of my good friends and ex-roommates from California is a Vietnamese-American guy with significantly darker asian skin and he had a blast during World Cup time.. he was here for a couple weeks and fell in love with the place and the people.. he couldn't stop talking about it.. so I can't really say that its bad for non-white foreigners here.. it might be a class thing.. if they assume you are working in a factory compared to teaching English or studying at a Korean university.. you might get different reactions.. which might be classism.. not sure about that though.. but all i know is he raved and raved about it.. and still continues to rave about it.. but he's back in California in his high-tech biology bio-tech world doing the career thing..

Also, I've noticed younger koreans getting a little interested in salsa and spanish culture.. not overwhelmingly.. not everywhere you go by any means.. but i've been seeing that there is an interest among the young in particular..

Anyhow, are koreans racist on the whole.. well, yes.. does it make it difficult for me to live here? no.. i find most things extremely tolerable and having a great time here.. i keep coming back to korea.. and probably will continue doing so as well..

Actually I find Korea to be slowly changing.. particuraly the younger generations.. and will probably continue to get better and better for us who are kind of long-termers or planning to be in and out of Korea numberous times again..

Regarding racist incidents.. yep, those are here.. and will probably always be here.. i don't think you can eliminate that.. and i also think you will find that everywhere in the world.. so if you are going to escape Korea because of it and head to another predominately different racial mix-up of people.. you will probably just encounter the same thing..

Medic · Joined: 11 Mar 2003

Minjokmanseh said

This is far more sinister. This of course isn't a uniquely "Korean problem", since any group of people with similar history as Korea's and the demographic makeup would have similar tendencies. After all is said and done, however, this does strike me as racism indeed.

I like your use of the word "sinister", and it's being due to the Korean peoples history and demographic make up. Kind of fits with what I want to say.

I have heard that many non Koreans studying for higher degrees in programes that have not been specifically designed for foreigners get treated pretty badly. They have to do a lot of extra work that Koreans would not normally do, and on top of that many of them are deliberately failed. I have met some who have had such unfortunate experiences, and I know as would you know that they had the smarts and did the work to get through.

logan2003 · Joined: 20 May 2003

Why do whites allways do this?

Maybe it is a minority mentality....you hear it from blacks in America..

This is what I mean....."And I was the only white person there"

Hmmmm when you look around the room there is me (African American, my wife Indian, and another teacher who is also non-white).................

But I guess it is a minority mentality. So I guess should not feel annoyed at it.

But the poll is not complete and it assumes that all English teachers here are white............pretty stupid assumption. Yes it is true it is harder to find a job....but it is not impossible, I found 2 one me and my wife both of us are non-white I have resigned at the second job.

But please if you post a poll of this nature bear in mind there is more to the English teachers than white skin. So i did not participate because the poll does not speak to me.

But I get special treatment ALL THE TIME. I get gifts, gifts, gifts. One student gave me a large container of Dog meat.....another no make a two gave me wine, many others give me traditional candy................well you get my point.

rapier · Joined: 16 Feb 2003

I don't feel treated preferentially. I mean, all the Korean teachers are allowed to smack the kids by way of discipline- but not me. I am also the last to be told anything!
I'm certainly not treated preferentially by the kids- as the exotic alien curiosity piece I believe I've been called every name under the sun. I reckon the kids don't really take you seriously if you're not Korean. Its a subtle racism that is passed down from their parents.
I spent 5 years at school in England, and I remember we had a Malaysian teacher- none of us kids took him very seriously purely because he wasn't white. So I suppose you can understand it.

lpcool · Joined: 21 Apr 2003 Location: Seoul, Korea

mokpochica · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Location: Ann Arbor, MI

I have to agree with Dan's and Tiger Beer's comments. I know that there is racism in Korea, but it really doesn't do much to make my life miserable or better. I used to think that I was getting a lot of things for free and then I realized that Koreans were given things free too--and it's just a bigger part of the culture here than at home. And usually the stuff I'm given that's just for me is quite small (like a little stuffed animal or hot dog candy) and I think it's more because I'm a guest in this country than because I'm white.

I do think that the younger generation sees that there is racism and is concerned about it. When I first came to Korea, I was surprised to have some 3rd year middle school students ask me if life was hard for me in Korea. They kept stumbling over a word, and finally I figured out they were saying 'xenophobia' and worrying about people's racist attitudes toward me.

I'm sure that there are sometimes racist comments that I don't pick up on because I'm not fluent in Korean, but I'm not going to let that bother me. For the most part people are kind and friendly to me, and their comments and behavior are more about curiosity than racism. I could do without kids pulling out pieces of my arm hair, but whatever.

And I think on the poll I would have to say, 'yes whites get preferential treatment' sometimes but I don't really get all excited about it and neither does it make me uncomfortable, because often it's not clear if it's directed toward me as a white person or me as a guest of the country. As far as the school I work in, they would be happy to have any native speaker of English, regardless of their skin color, so I don't see it there, although I know some hagwons are a different story.

Weigookin74 · Joined: 26 Oct 2009