Korean Job Discussion Forums

[J.B. Clamence]

I agree that foreigners who do not have Ph.Ds or publications do not deserve the same money/position/recognition that Korean professors who possess these qualifications get.

However, as far as one "daring" to call themself a "professor", the bottom line is that if your university has bestowed the title of "professor" on you, then you are indeed a professor, regardless of your qualifications. If you want to blame someone, blame the university -- they are the ones who made it so.

After all, if you think a guy is underqualified to be the president of a company, would you blame the company for making him president, or would you blame the guy for accepting the title he was given? Of course you would first and foremost have to blame the company.

[the_beaver]

[livinginkorea]

J.B. Clamence wrote

[dzeisons]

i find it funny that unis ask for MAs or phds in anything and then get the the 'professor' to teach english conversation. how a phd or ma can help one become a better TESOL teacher is beyond me. then again that may explain the calibre of most korean uni programmes.

[ajstew]

I find it funny that there is an 'MA for TESOL' ... not exactly a meaningful subject. It seems like people study it for job training... which isn't personally what I feel anyone should do a Masters for.

[TECO]

TESOL M.A. programs in Australia are nothing more than "Certificate" level courses in Canada - They aren't even at the diploma level.

Yet, they call them M.A. degrees.

In fact, TESOL M.A. degrees in Australia can be obtained in under a year and without having to engage in any original thesis-type research.

I agree, a Ph.D teaching Let's Talk or Impact Listening to 60 university students in a classroom is a joke.

Still, universities continue to ask for Ph.D applicants to teach listening and conversation.

[kimchikowboy]

On a related note, some of us are real professors, and getting (in spite of what Real Reality posts) promotions and research funds.
From today's Chosun Ilbo:

U.S. High School Grad 'Professor' Busted for Big-Time University Scam
A high school graduate from the United States, who found employment at a certain private university in Korea after faking a master's degree and doctorate from a famous U.S. university, now finds himself in police custody.
�� Degree forged, "open" employment

Seoul Metropolitan Police arrested on Monday a 34-year-old Mr. M, a graduate of an art high school in New York, for taking employment at a private university in Seoul after faking a master's and doctorate degree from a U.S. university. M received a salary and research fees from the school.

According to police, M met a Korean woman while he was working at a hotel in New York and came to Korea last November. Last April, he asked a broker in Thailand to falsify a master's degree from New York's Columbia University, after which he found employment as an English teacher at a university in Seoul. He worked as an instructor until last February and received W24 million per year.

Later, M counterfeited a doctorate degree in a similar way. He falsified a doctorate degree from Central Michigan University and applied for an assistant professor position at the same university. He was hired, and received a total of W68 million from the university, including W44 million in salary and research funds.

�� Fabricated thesis, even smoked pot

Police investigation revealed that M, putting the school's policy of granting money to professors who public theses in famous academic journals to ill use, received research grants for theses he carefully stole from other scholars.

After he became an assistant professor, he opened a website with a domain name similar to that of a famous academic journal, on which he registered edited versions of others' academic theses under his own name. He did this three times, receiving W15 million in research fees.

He also took wild hemp and planted it in flowerpots in his on-campus professor apartment, regularly smoking marijuana.

As this shows that the strict screenings given to Koreans applying for professorial openings are not being properly applied to foreign candidates, there are those calling for university hiring standards to be fairly and strictly supplemented.

([email protected] )

[Real Reality]

Did you notice the following:
1. experience (which may be reflected in his age)
2. salary
3. number of teaching hours (number of classes)
4. number of students
5. bonus
6. amount of the bonus for published research

Is the university public or private?

The Seoul Metropolitan Police said yesterday that Hector Manuel Ramos, 34, had been paid 68 million won ($60,714) in wages and research funds while teaching at Konkuk University since April of last year. According to the police, Mr. Ramos confessed to obtaining a forged graduate diploma from Columbia University and a Ph.D from Central Michigan University through a Thai "diploma broker" last year.

As an assistant professor in the English Literature Department of Konkuk University, he taught four subjects to 130 students.

The school became suspicious after Mr. Ramos reported publishing an unusual amount of research on an "academic" Web site. After discovering that the Web site was fraudulent, the school reported Mr. Ramos to the police. By then, it had paid him 15 million won for the research. Mr. Ramos had created the Web site himself to take advantage of a school policy that pays bonuses to professors whose work is published.
by Brian Lee
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200411/08/200411082231492309900090409041.html

And, how about your university position?

1. experience
2. salary
3. number of teaching hours (number of classes)
4. number of students
5. bonus
6. amount of the bonus for published research

[Confused Canadian]

[TECO]

At SFU, back in Vancouver, I remember a professor who had to resign because it was revealed that he had not attended the universities he had claimed to have attended.

I guess he lied and said he had attended certain schools and obtained an M.A. and Ph.D and actually had not.

This was verified after SFU contacted the schools in question. The schools advised that the man had never been enrolled as a student never mind graduated from the schools.

This man had for years served as a high level beaureaucrat in the British Columbia Attorney Generals office before teaching at SFU.

He almost made it right to the end of his career also - he was in his 50s I think when his fraudulent resume was revealed. Some people have balls as big as church bells, eh!

And this happened not too long ago (1996/97 in Canada!!

I am sure it happens a lot in Asia.

[kimchikowboy]

Real Reality,
I hope you didn't take the previous mention as a dig. It certainly wasn't meant to be, and reflects more surprise on my part than anything at beating you (and others) to posting this, as this seems the sort of thing that would draw immediate attention from readers of this board. After all, how many pages of commentary did the teacher who was fired in Daejon for having a hooker come to his room garner?
As per the questions posted at the end of your reply, I'll give you a general answer that my class load and salary is certainly comparable with most other positions I see posted, and better than the vast majority.
If I were to disagree with you on something, it would be your seeming insistence on placing all foreigners teaching at the university level here on par with their Korean counterparts. I don't deny there is some discrimination as I've experienced it myself. However, there are opportunities for advancement if coupled with hard work and increased abilities. With that in mind, I'm starting a PhD program next year, and also take an active role in what is happening within my department (not English). I've also presented at professional conferences and have worked with a professional journal within the discipline I teach. How many foreign teachers go out of the way to try to make a contribution to their employer not stipulated in their contract? With more work comes more rewards, be it here or in our own home countries.

[Real Reality]

U.S. High School Grad 'Professor' Busted for Big-Time University Scam
As this shows that the strict screenings given to Koreans applying for professorial openings are not being properly applied to foreign candidates, there are those calling for university hiring standards to be fairly and strictly supplemented.
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200411/200411080031.html

Please use the strict screening process with everyone. Of course, the universities will offer foreign candidates the same salary and benefits applied to Koreans.

Money key to teaching posts
An Internet poll of 1,072 people who have applied for teaching posts at Korean universities shows that 79 percent of respondents found the process unfair.

The majority of the 166 respondents who were asked to make donations said they were pushed to pay from 50 million won ($42,000) to 100 million won. About 40 said that they were asked to pay more than 100 million won; five said the school demanded 200 million won. The poll was made by Kyosu.net, an academic job recruitment Web site.

Nearly 8 out of 10 respondents said the recruitment process was meaningless because many of the colleges had already decided who they would hire. Almost two-thirds said the recruitment process centered on regional or school connections. More than half asked why most colleges do not release the results of recruitment tests. Almost 40 percent said discrimination based on gender, age, religion and the country where an applicant completed his academic degree was prevalent.
by Bae Young-dae, JoongAng Daily (July 9, 2002)
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200207/09/200207090054252629900090409041.html

[dzeisons]

ajstew wrote

I find it funny that there is an 'MA for TESOL' ... not exactly a meaningful subject.

Ha ha! TESOL is not a meaningful subject. TESOL stands for Teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages- if you're a teacehr teaching non native speakers then that is exactly what you are doing.

[The Bobster]

[Keepongoing]