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thorin
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
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 Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| shakuhachi wrote: |
| thorin wrote: |
| Mashimaro wrote: |
| thorin wrote: |
| Mashimaro wrote: |
| Thorin, do you have a clue about korean? Where/how did you learn and what level have you achieved? My guess is you probably pee yourself with fear when anyone speaks korean to you. |
Excuse me for not being born with silver ������ in my mouth. |
Studying korean as a foreigner in korea is dirt cheap in compared to koreans learning english. It takes effort, not piles of cash. |
The best way to learn Korean as a second language is to be born a ����. Then you can go on Dave's and talk smack to people who have only been studying for a year and a half. It's so much fun and it makes everyone love you. Also, then you don't have to address the topic of the thread or the numerous points made by the other posters. BTW your signature illustrates my point that old hanja is used to make Korean mottos look pretty. As for your Korean, you used the words "stuttering" and "shambolic" to describe it a few days ago. Then holyjoe schooled you when you spelled ���� wrong. I don't stutter in any language dude. It seems to me that you're the one more likely to "pee yourself with fear". |
Thorin, what is your problem, coming off all aggressive? You havent addressed the the topic of the thread. You just want to persistently claim that hanja is used for 'looking cool' only, when that is not the case. This is a message board - relax! |
It annoys me when people respond without reading the whole thread. If that's all I said, why did mithridates and I go back and forth 10 times? I doubt he's that bored. As for aggression, mashimaro personally attacked me for no reason. Am I not allowed to respond?
Last edited by thorin on Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:19 am Post subject: |
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That's not true that the best way to learn Korean is to be born a Kyopo. Generally they don't pick it up very well, they can hear and understand it but have a hard time making themselves understood without any real practice on how the language works.
Korean took be a year and a half of hard study, and though I'm pretty good with languages, I'm not a savant by any means and I spend hours a day at it. Nor does it have anything to do with background or early childhood education, because I was unilingual until I was 19.
Um...are we still talking about hanja?
BTW Thorin, I don't think you're aggressive. Your posts are just...um...sharper than most.  |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:28 am Post subject: |
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Oh, and you (nobody in particular, just 'you') know the reason why I started studying languages? Utter hate for the job I was doing at the time. I had just missed going to university and I had some ten months before I would have the chance to go at it again and in the meantime I was arranging dusty old wellfiles somewhere downtown. That, surprisingly, is what started everything. It's much harder to motivate yourself to do something when you are content.
I actually remember losing my motivation to do anything a few weeks after I got my last girlfriend, I just felt so...so still, like there was nowhere else to go. It was really weird. |
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Mashimaro
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: location, location
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| thorin wrote: |
| Mashimaro wrote: |
| thorin wrote: |
| Mashimaro wrote: |
| Thorin, do you have a clue about korean? Where/how did you learn and what level have you achieved? My guess is you probably pee yourself with fear when anyone speaks korean to you. |
Excuse me for not being born with silver ������ in my mouth. |
Studying korean as a foreigner in korea is dirt cheap in compared to koreans learning english. It takes effort, not piles of cash. |
The best way to learn Korean as a second language is to be born a ����. Then you can go on Dave's and talk smack to people who have only been studying for a year and a half. It's so much fun and it makes everyone love you. Also, then you don't have to address the topic of the thread or the numerous points made by the other posters. BTW your signature illustrates my point that old hanja is used to make Korean mottos look pretty. As for your Korean, you used the words "stuttering" and "shambolic" to describe it a few days ago. Then holyjoe schooled you when you spelled ���� wrong. I don't stutter in any language dude. It seems to me that you're the one more likely to "pee yourself with fear". |
1) Who is the ���� you are referring to?? If you can find korean blood in my family you know something I don't.
2) I did describe my korean as shambolic, because it is shambolic compared to a korean native speaker.
3) As for ���� versus ������ there are over 200,000 listings of ������
on Google. If I'm wrong, at least I'm in good company with 200,000 other koreans. ���� may be more commonly used because it is shorter and easier to type. Just because many people abbreviate it doesn't mean I have to as well. |
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thorin
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:49 am Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
That's not true that the best way to learn Korean is to be born a Kyopo.
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You're right again. Darn, you always catch me when I'm twisting facts to make a point.
| mithridates wrote: |
Korean took be a year and a half of hard study...
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That's it? Wow, I'm even more impressed/ashamed.
| mithridates wrote: |
Um...are we still talking about hanja?
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No, I think we agree. No one else seems to have anything else to say on topic. 
| mithridates wrote: |
BTW Thorin, I don't think you're aggressive. Your posts are just...um...sharper than most. |
I guess I'd rather be sharp than dull... |
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casey's moon
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 2:59 am Post subject: |
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| Mashimaro wrote: |
[1) Who is the ���� you are referring to?? If you can find korean blood in my family you know something I don't.
2) I did describe my korean as shambolic, because it is shambolic compared to a korean native speaker.
3) As for ���� versus ������ there are over 200,000 listings of ������
on Google. If I'm wrong, at least I'm in good company with 200,000 other koreans. ���� may be more commonly used because it is shorter and easier to type. Just because many people abbreviate it doesn't mean I have to as well. |
Hey, someone else said that you were a ���� before (can't remember who or when -- perhaps it was just Thorin in a different thread) which kind of shocked me since you said you were 6 foot 2 or something... It's an even stranger thing to be attacked for if you aren't ���� (but only slightly!  )
As for ���� and all that -- isn't it like the spelling of the English word "juice" in Korean? Some people spell it �꽺 and some spell it �ֽ�? Or for that matter, the romanisation of Korean words... Is ���� spelled kal'bi or galbi... or something completely different? I don't get why anyone corrected you for that. 
Mashimoro, I always enjoy your posts (despite the fact that I'm a heterosexual female, I absolutely love your avatar for one), and feel I'd get along with you if I met you. Our Korean ability seems to be similar (highish intermediate?), and our modesty about it also similar. The only thing I would ever say bad about you, is that you dignify trollish posts with answers!
Okay, okay, I admit it -- I do that too. But I wish I didn't.
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thorin
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:35 am Post subject: |
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| casey's moon wrote: |
Hey, someone else said that you were a ���� before (can't remember who or when -- perhaps it was just Thorin in a different thread)
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It wasn't me. Everyone knows he's a ����. All this "I'M THE WIZARD OF OZ!!!" "I'm 6'2!" stuff is too funny.
| casey's moon wrote: |
It's an even stranger thing to be attacked for if you aren't ���� (but only slightly! )
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I never said there's anything wrong with ���� per se. Why don't you go back and read what he said to me and then decide who was "attacked".
| casey's moon wrote: |
As for ���� and all that -- isn't it like the spelling of the English word "juice" in Korean? Some people spell it �꽺 and some spell it �ֽ�? Or for that matter, the romanisation of Korean words... Is ���� spelled kal'bi or galbi... or something completely different? I don't get why anyone corrected you for that.
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Because you didn't read the other thread. You're obviously right that alternate spellings exist. Usually one is preferred and more common, in this case ���� rather than ������. Not a big deal at all. I just knew it would annoy him if I brought it up again.
| casey's moon wrote: |
Mashimoro, I always enjoy your posts (despite the fact that I'm a heterosexual female, I absolutely love your avatar for one)
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At least we're focusing on substance rather than style, ugh. Are you sure you're not just desperate for a tall guy? LOL
| casey's moon wrote: |
The only thing I would ever say bad about you, is that you dignify trollish posts with answers!
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This is a test.  |
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casey's moon
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:44 am Post subject: |
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I said (about answering trollish posts):
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| Okay, okay, I admit it -- I do that too. But I wish I didn't. |
but I'm going to try to leave it at this (and thanks for admitting that you're a troll!)
| Quote: |
| Are you sure you're not just desperate for a tall guy? LOL |
Yes, quite, but thanks for asking.
I'm married. Happily so.
Thorin, I get the feeling that you're not really that much of a jerk in your offline life... is this true?  |
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thorin
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:19 am Post subject: |
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| casey's moon wrote: |
Thorin, I get the feeling that you're not really that much of a jerk in your offline life... is this true? |
Actually, I'm much more of a jerk in real life.  |
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waggo
Joined: 18 May 2003
Location: pusan baby!
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Thankyou everybody for some very insightful information!! |
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Cedar
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Location: In front of my computer, again.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| Too lazy to read the whole thread (only read the first and last page). Did you know that Hanja was still the most common writing form into the 1890s???? Really, I am not pulling your leg! Without the hard work of some nationalist �ѱ� hangeul proponents you'd be living in a country that uses Chinese characters (pronounced differently)... |
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shakuhachi
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Cedar wrote: |
| Too lazy to read the whole thread (only read the first and last page). Did you know that Hanja was still the most common writing form into the 1890s???? Really, I am not pulling your leg! Without the hard work of some nationalist �ѱ� hangeul proponents you'd be living in a country that uses Chinese characters (pronounced differently)... |
Your ignorance of history is stunning. Arent you doing a masters degree in Korean language? Korean nationalists had very little to do with the spread of hangul. The spread of hangul was the initiative of the Japanese colonial administration, which set up primary, middle and high schools for Korean children, and taught them hangul. |
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casey's moon
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| shakuhachi wrote: |
| Cedar wrote: |
| Too lazy to read the whole thread (only read the first and last page). Did you know that Hanja was still the most common writing form into the 1890s???? Really, I am not pulling your leg! Without the hard work of some nationalist �ѱ� hangeul proponents you'd be living in a country that uses Chinese characters (pronounced differently)... |
Your ignorance of history is stunning. Arent you doing a masters degree in Korean language? Korean nationalists had very little to do with the spread of hangul. The spread of hangul was the initiative of the Japanese colonial administration, which set up primary, middle and high schools for Korean children, and taught them hangul. |
Where did you learn that??? They taught the Korean Japanese in school and kanji.... Seriously, where did you hear that Shakuhachi???????????
Are you playing troll? |
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Cedar
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Location: In front of my computer, again.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| shakuhachi wrote: |
Your ignorance of history is stunning. Arent you doing a masters degree in Korean language? Korean nationalists had very little to do with the spread of hangul. The spread of hangul was the initiative of the Japanese colonial administration, which set up primary, middle and high schools for Korean children, and taught them hangul. |
From Ch'oe Hyon-bae and Korean Nationalism: Language, Culture and National Development
"The advent of Japanese rule marked a new era of education, communications, and the building of the infrastructure of a modern state. Some nationalists realized tha tthe power of the West was in part based on effective mobilization of society through communications and education. As a reuslt, natiionalists began to advocate mass education and language reform as a means of strengthening Korean society. At the same time the nationlists' appeal for unified opposition to colonial rule and self-determination began to reach a much wider audience."
two groups of Korean nationalists after the March First movement...
"Gradualists were appalled by what seemed to be a widespread feeling of inferiority in Korean society with regard to native culture, and they came to the realization that nothing short of a cultural revoltion would be ale to revitalize and nurture a true sense of Korean cultural identity."
enter Ch'oe Hyon-bae (������)
"Ch'oe began with a concern for the role of language in cultural development, but he turned his attention to the broader questions of cultural identity and cultural subservience. ... Ch'oe was iconoclastic in his attitude toward traditional culture. He believed that many aspects of traditional Korean society posed barriers to the develoment of a modern Korean culture and he wanted to replace traditoinal cutlural norms with modern, progressive vlaues. Thus Ch'oe wanted to purge all Chinese elements in the Korean tradition that hindered the develoment of pure Korean culture."
Damn, I just realized I don't have enough time to keep going here... I have class in 30 minutes and need to do breakfast and class appropriate clothing first...
But I will definitely continue this, cause this is NOT something I am "ignorant" about... |
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shakuhachi
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| casey's moon wrote: |
Where did you learn that??? They taught the Korean Japanese in school and kanji.... Seriously, where did you hear that Shakuhachi???????????
Are you playing troll? |
I am not a troll. I just happen to know more about this particular subject than you (along with every other subject that is).
| Cedar wrote: |
| shakuhachi wrote: |
Your ignorance of history is stunning. Arent you doing a masters degree in Korean language? Korean nationalists had very little to do with the spread of hangul. The spread of hangul was the initiative of the Japanese colonial administration, which set up primary, middle and high schools for Korean children, and taught them hangul. |
From Ch'oe Hyon-bae and Korean Nationalism: Language, Culture and National Development
"The advent of Japanese rule marked a new era of education, communications, and the building of the infrastructure of a modern state. Some nationalists realized tha tthe power of the West was in part based on effective mobilization of society through communications and education. As a reuslt, natiionalists began to advocate mass education and language reform as a means of strengthening Korean society. At the same time the nationlists' appeal for unified opposition to colonial rule and self-determination began to reach a much wider audience."
two groups of Korean nationalists after the March First movement...
"Gradualists were appalled by what seemed to be a widespread feeling of inferiority in Korean society with regard to native culture, and they came to the realization that nothing short of a cultural revoltion would be ale to revitalize and nurture a true sense of Korean cultural identity."
enter Ch'oe Hyon-bae (������)
"Ch'oe began with a concern for the role of language in cultural development, but he turned his attention to the broader questions of cultural identity and cultural subservience. ... Ch'oe was iconoclastic in his attitude toward traditional culture. He believed that many aspects of traditional Korean society posed barriers to the develoment of a modern Korean culture and he wanted to replace traditoinal cutlural norms with modern, progressive vlaues. Thus Ch'oe wanted to purge all Chinese elements in the Korean tradition that hindered the develoment of pure Korean culture."
Damn, I just realized I don't have enough time to keep going here... I have class in 30 minutes and need to do breakfast and class appropriate clothing first...
But I will definitely continue this, cause this is NOT something I am "ignorant" about... |
Nothing in the above text supports your contention that the spread of hangul was due to the activities of Korean nationalists. In fact, Korean nationalism as a force was so negligible that political life was dominated by Pro-Japanese elements even before the Japanese annexed Korea. Korean nationalists lacked the clout to bring forth such a program.
The standardization and orthonography that you see in Korean today is due to Japanese efforts to modernize the language. Japanese taught hangul to Koreans at a time when hangul was extremely marginalized in Korean society. Since you wont believe me, I offer proof.
I dont know your method of study, but you dont really know anything about this subject. Go ahead and debate me if you want. |
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