Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Cedar]

Instead of just insulting me, you might note that I said I didn't have time to finish writing my post... I am on a ten minute break now, but I will be glad to get back to you this evening. I am sure there are many things that you know that I don't, likewise, before coming off as though you are omniscient, you might consider that what you know- though valid and accurate- may not be everything to know on the subject.

And just one more time for clarity- Iwill get back to you on this in the evening when I have time for an in depth reply.

[shakuhachi]

[Yangkho]

Wow. This is a thread. This is a friekin' thread. A lot of fun to read. Highly controversial, as well.

Even if ���� happens to be the standard spelling in Hangeul, there seem to be quite a few Koreans who use ������ on blogs and message boards.

[mithridates]

Yeah, this thread has been going all over the place. I just thought of something: Mashimaro (or anyone else studying hanja), did you know there's a hanja test you can take in Korea, or have you already tried it? It's quite cheap too, usually around 20000 won.

[Mashimaro]

[visviva]

shakuhachi, can you provide some more information about the context of this book? For example, was it actually part of a government-sponsored project? Were the books widely distributed within Korea? At what point in the occupation was the book published? Were other similar books published, or is this the only one?

The pictures are impressive, but they would better serve the discussion if accompanied by an explanation.

... also one of the pictures you posted on an earlier thread about the backwardness of Joseon society shows hangeul text in the background. this would seem to undermine your point somewhat -- can you explain?

[mithridates]

www.hangum.re.kr is where you want to go. Basically there are eight levels, level eight being the easiest and one the hardest. Level eight requires 50 hanja, level 1 requires 3500, and the rest are somewhere in between. Levels 1-4 are the 'recognized' levels while the others were just designed as encouragement for kids, though I suspect that levels 8-5 would still be impressive as a learner of Korean. I think the bottom levels are about 15000, and the top one was 35000 or so. I passed level 2 and saw about 50% kids and 50% adults there, took level one and I think I got 60-something percent which isn't good enough (that level you need 80% to pass, but only 70% for the others) so I'll have to take it again. You get a number when you take the test and can check if you've passed online by entering your number; it'll tell you if your name appears on the sheet of people who have passed.
I think Seoulmon has taken the test as well, level 4 or so.

[shakuhachi]

[Cedar]

Okay, still haven't been able to find adequate time to post here. Please understand, I am a full time teacher at a uni where the students want to learn and a full time grad student, i am swamped.

Basically, though the Japanese did do somethings that promoted the use of Hangeul, it would be incredibly unfair to credit them with promulgation of the writing system. Work to promote Hangeul usage was heavily underway before the occupation officially started, and even before it unofficially started. The vernacular movm't began in the late nineteenth century with BOOKS, MAGAZINES and NEWSPAPERS in Hangeul. Some, like the Independence News used only Korean without any Hanja at all. The YI DYNASTY (Joseon) instituted the USE OF KOREAN IN ALL OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS IN 1895. Now of course, that didn't mean an overnight change, but this predates the Japanese occupation and shows the strong desire of the Korean people to promulgate Hangeul as the official and local script.

The Japanese with what they did do that could be called promotion of Hangeul, also cont'd to encourage the use of large amounts of Hanja, particularly in official documents, so while they were able to tolerate a somewhat educated populace, they were actively working to keep a tiered society where the upper rungs would be the only ones with access to all the information. Also the books that the Japanese printed in Hangeul were almost all geared towards making Korea easier for them to run, not towards education of the populace. They basically wanted to be able to post an edict on how to behave and have everyone be able to see it and do as it said. In addition, as can be expected, the highest and most priviledged members of society saw learning Japanese as logical and realistic, and so while the Japanese may have made it so that some more Koreans could read Hangeul, the practical message they were spreading was one of cont'd use of Hanja and even of a switch to the Japanese language.

The Korean nationalists that worked hard for Hangeul promulgation, however, were also working to excise use of Hanja as much as possible, and put everyone on an equal footing. As the occupation progressed the Japanese banned ALL USE of Korean, including Hangeul, and by that time work on the Korean language was an acknowledgedly OVERT act of resistance to the occupation. Remember throughout the occupation most of the school teachers were JAPANESE.

I hope that this somewhat answers your questions Shakuhachi. Please remember that while you can look at a book like the one you posted, and you can see something in it: Japanese promotion of Hangeul: you should remember the pre-Japanese movm'ts for Hangeul use (even by the gov't) and also remember the INTENT of the Japanese school books in Hangeul and most of all remember that as time went on Japan completely banned use of Korean... so overall, I hardly think we can say that the Japanese did much to help Koreans learn their national script. They did as much to hinder, if not more, than they did to help and the movm't for use of Hangeul was mostly spread by the work of the nationalists, not the work of the Japanese.

[Sliver]

Without being an expert it would seem that what the Japanese did could be called in linguistic terms of corpus language planning 'rationalisation' considering that there would have been a political intent to policy on Hangeul.

[shakuhachi]

[seoulmon]

[visviva]

Ooh... just what this forum needs, another flamewar.

In Ki-Baek Lee's A New History of Korea , tr. by Wagner & Schultz, p. 330, we read the history of the short-lived Korea Daily News / ���� ���� �ź�, a paper which among other things published Kojong's letter appealing for aid from the West:

[mithridates]

I agree with everything you said except for the bit about Dave's Cafe not being up to par for discussing these things.

[shakuhachi]

Cedar�� �Ƹ� �̸�����, �л� ������ ȣ�� ����� ������ ������ ������ ��� �ִ� ���ϱ�? Cedar�� ������ ������ �Ϸ��� �����ߴµ���.

Cedar�� ������ ��ź �� ���� ����ϰ� ���� �����ž�?

Typical behavior of some people on this board...