Korean Job Discussion Forums

[uberscheisse]

please immediately lock this thread and refer me to the appropriate one if i'm 10 days late...

but i was told today that roh is starting to stage an assault on hagwons and turn the esl/efl industry over to government controlled sources.

anyone heard anything about this?

[Harkkonenlad]

Where did you hear this? None of my friends over there have mentioned anything about it...and if Roh is doing that, he's got one hell of a job before him.

[animalbirdfish]

I haven't heard this specific piece of news, but neither would it surprise me. Roh's really been after the Korean education system. He's right, it needs changing, but I don't know if he's the guy - or his the ideas - to do it.

[schwa]

I think whoever was in power would acknowledge that private education costs here are a drag on the society as a whole. A disproportionate amount of the family budget goes to schooling, rich kids get a huge headstart (as anywhere, but maybe moreso in Korea), regional demographics are skewed as families move to jockey for advantage, & its a major factor in the too-low birthrate. Hagwons also represent the perceived failings of the public school system. (University entrance exams are part of that problem, but thats another debate.)

So yeah, Roh would like to see hagwons diminished in influence (& not just english academies, they're just part of the equation). The industry is too large though to just pull the plug -- far too many Koreans derive a living from it. I think what you'll see instead is the gradual introduction of more tax-supported programs in an attempt to squeeze out the need for private education.

Its already happening. Public schools are increasing their afterschool programs. More & more are bringing in native speakers to counter one of the key advantages of academies. English immersion 'villages' are cropping up all over. The EBS tv & internet instruction introduced this year was closely keyed to questions on the actual suneung exam, which I'm sure was by govt dictate.

Hagwon jobs wont disappear altogether but over time the market is likely to shrink & directors & parents may well become more selective about the quality of instruction. That would be a good thing, wouldnt it?

[Ihavenolips]

I haven't heard anything about this. I kind of doubt that resident Roh could do much to ban hagwons. There is too much big monry involved. However, the Korean government has banned private schools in the past.

In 1981, President Chun Doo-hwan outlawed cramming schools and private tuition. Students could get dismissed from a school if they hired a private tutor, and teachers could get fired or arrested if they taught pupils on the side. Even some foreign nationals were expunged from South Korea for the crime of private teaching. Despite these Draconian measures the anti-hagwon policy failed to control private schools. The illegal nature of private schools actually drove up the price of risky private lessons, so large profits proved too tempting. Public pressure made government officials cave in, and by 1989 the private schools were re-approved.

It was in the mid-1990s when Korea's ESL boom really kicked in. After years of censorship, newly created private schools jumped at the opportunity to hire foreign teachers. Today, estimates suggest that there are over 25,000 hagwans in Korea - and that stat doesn't even include home teaching, free lance tutors, or unauthorized schools.

We take it for granted that we teach in Korean. However, this entire ESL boom in Korea is only one decade old. It wouldn't be unheard of for a Korean President to put the brakes on private schools with a variety of new taxes and regulation on foreign teachers.

[itaewonguy]

ROh means well.. but korea is such a dark society the past is dark and the people who lurk in the dark have a huge control on it..
he will not be able to change as much he wants too..
the time for roh is not now.. maybe in 30 years or 50 years.. when the generations turn over.. then maybe someone can come forward and put the country in fair ground..
as of now.. the country is run by corrupt officals... there is a war going on right now.. some gangstas use guns.. other gangstas use pens!
people in the police force or law, politicians just because they have degrees and they work in government jobs.. doesnt mean they are not
criminals..
If the hakwon business goes government.. its becuase some greedy government officials want the slice of the cake!!
not becuase roh is trying to make it better for society..
the first step is to make a better education in the public sector so parents dont have to spend millions of won in private schools..

[hellofaniceguy]

Go for it Roh! Yes! I'm for it! 200%!
It'll weed out the bad on BOTH sides! Hundreds and perhaps thousands would be without jobs and that's great.
Families are spending stupid amounts of money on private education and for what...just to keep up with the Jones'.
You would think that after all the years that koreans have been studying English...6 plus years grammar in the public schools and 6 plus years of hakwons....that most could speak half way decent English! Even these parents who are forcing their children to attend language schools were also forced to study English....AND MOST of them still can't speak but a few sentences in English! So...obviously...something is wrong.
One big problem is...too many chiefs and not enough indians.
School owners only want and care about MONEY. Not quality or even good education.
I don't agree with the government stepping into private business...I would not like it...but the industry is not cleaning itself up.
Many fake degree teachers in korea as well. Government shuts all hakwons down and start from scratch. Better control. Round up every foreigner in korea...and deport them. They can return on a new visa.
But...it won't happen. Not even remotly close.

[Harkkonenlad]

[turtlepi1]

Sure the degree to which Korea relies on private schools is rediculous but until there is a complete reform of their public educational system this isn't likely to happen.

The public schools seem like a joke. The classes are so big the teachers have pretty much given up teaching and are in survival mode.

Not to mention many of the teachers aren't interested in teaching...it is just a half way respectible job and the other half are so discouraged they no longer teach either.

This isn't strictly aimed at Korea. This is a problem around the world including developed countries...but this thread is about Korea.

As for using a disproportionate amount of income on education...that is true...and I think it is crazy and unhealthy the amount of time kids spend in school. Mind you this problem isn't a lot worse than the western kids that don't spend enough time in school and have so much time to run around causing shit. There is a balance and neither culture has found it.

[uberscheisse]

i think, from what little i know, what roh is trying to do is cripple the hagwon system, starting with this tuition cap... while slowly building the public system's ability to meet the need. his strategy, anyways. there's been absolutely NOTHING about it in the english-speaking papers from what i have seen.

i predict that, if this happens, the transition period between private-to-public is going to be a disastrous one.

our hagwon had a meeting about it yesterday and my boss, a guy who legitimately cares about education, looked like a dude who had his hands tied.

it's affecting us on all fronts, we have to raise class size, cut classes down by a half hour, and we're even talking about wages being reduced.

i'm a bit of a socialist so i can understand the idea of making education fair and affordable, but only about 40% of kids at our school actually get something out of it - the rest of it is expensive babysitting and 'keeping up with the joneses'. for that 40%, their quality of education is going to go down for starters... it's a weird idea to make them suffer.

as well, i was getting darned used to the 2.4 million a month.

yeah i just used a smiley. someone shoot me.

[Swiss James]

[Zed]

[hellofaniceguy]

[/quote]
Some changes have to be made, but "Round up every foreginer in Korea and deport them"...? Umm thats kinda harsh, and a little bit arrogant. .[/quote]

Arrogant? It was not meant to sound that way...
However....
It's not your country!
And most of the foreigners in korea are in korea for ESL teaching. MONEY. If none were in it for the money...why come to korea then? Would any of the teachers work for free? Of course not.
But...that's not the issue...the issue is turning hakwons over to the government or the government taking conrol and let them screw it up even more so.
Clean up needs to start somewhere and while it would be nice to close all hakwons down and start fresh...it won't happen.

[JongnoGuru]

I can imagine that imposing tuition caps on hagwons and "rounding up" foreigners in pens would hold a fair degree of feel-good appeal for the Roh administration and its populist 386-er supporters. However, I don't see what good such short-sighted anti-market measures would do, besides driving more students (the privileged ones whose parents could afford it) into the hands of completely unregulated private tutors, or overseas.

As for the government itself (through public schools) getting into the after-school teaching business, that hardly seems like a cost-saving alternative to me if you're going to be charging the students for these after-hours classes anyway, while at the same time whacking up everyone's "education tax" burden to cover staffing and administration. And ultimately, is this really reducing "supply" or simply replacing existing (if not actually creating new) supply?

I've heard it argued that although the hagwon industry has taken a serious financial hit recently (and which industry hasn't?), the launch of the EBS programme was merely a coincidence, the continuing downturn in the economy being the real culprit. Thus, the next economic upswing will see the good times return to hagwons, chicken & beer hofs, taxis, convenience shops, tourism, real estate and every other sector of the economy. Then what will you have?

-- Regular schools
-- EBS programmes
-- Private hagwons
-- Private tutors
-- AND government-run "hagwons"

Oh, and just wait until the "1,2,3: Everybody Learn Chinese!" craze shifts into high gear. It'll be a three-ring circus for Korean kids. Seriously, if someone were to develop a pill that would let little boys & girls get by on just 3 hours of sleep a night, it would surpass Viagra sales here.

If the OP is correct, this government is tinkering now (just as Chun's tinkered in the 1980s to no avail, according to Ihavenolips' post) with the supply side of the problem, because it's simply got no clue how to tame Korean parents' "overzealous" demand for greater competitive advantage for their kids. And mind you, it's the advantage they're after, not the education. (<-- Please try not to laugh too loud at me for stating the obvious. It's just that of all the expat English teachers I've met, educating their students and being fairly rewarded for it were the two primary objectives. Helping their students "ace exams" or "beat out the competition" weren't considerations.)

If and when what uberscheisse mentions in his OP ever comes to pass, expect the media focus on the need to "improve edumacation" (god, I love that word! just lurnd it recently, too ) by looking into the qualifications/lack thereof of hagwon teachers, local and expat, exorbitant hagwon tuitions, corrupt hagwon owners, substandard curriculum & teaching plans, etc. But we'll not be taken in by that bit of misdirection.

I'm not sure what, if anything, the government should do, but I'm highly suspicious of any attempt to replace the hagwon industry by creating a whole new world of government regulation (w/the attendant opportunities for bribery, favouritism, etc.) where one didn't previously exist. And does anyone seriously buy the "for better edumacation" argument?

Hagwons are commercial enterprises, so government regulation should be the same as for other businesses. That is, ensure that health, safety & fire codes are met, labour laws are observed, and tax/health insurance/pension obligations are honoured. However, I would draw the line (or respect such line if it's already been drawn) at dictating what hagwons can charge, what they pay their faculty, what they teach, class size, etc.

Again, hagwons are businesses, and as such it's not the government's responsibility to evalute, rate or dictate to them. (Perhaps private-sector agencies should do that.) Let the guiding philosophy remain caveat emptor, and let the governing policy be "don't thwart, don't support".

If parents think they're paying too much for their kids' extracirricular education, it's their job -- not the government's -- to decide how to manage their own finances.

If the government thinks Koreans are spending too much on private tuition, well so what? The past two administrations have done their level best to spook parents into shelling out for it, and particularly English lessons. If the government were honest, it would say: "Look, we led you up the garden path with this 'national recovery & personal success through English' nonsense, and we're now apologising for that."

[We interrupt this long-winded rant for an important NEWSFLASH! Philippines feared not to be world-beating juggernaut, despite widespread English fluency NEWSFLASH! Rumours mount that mono-lingual Japan isn't no-hoper basket case].