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pecan
Joined: 01 Jul 2004
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 Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:13 pm Post subject: Unfortunate... |
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Are you denying what I referenced in my post? Do you know how and why those orphanages came to be funded?
It is unfortunate that you think that it is just a conspiracy, when in fact it is a reality. Check the history.
I do not deny that men from other countries participate in prostitution, but that is a completely separate issue. The majority of the orphans in these orphanages next to military bases in Korea are Amerasian children fathered by U.S. soldiers, like the one in Dongducheon.
Your misplaced humor is really sick (joking about cutting men up), considering your position on this board. Especially when women and children are being victimized. You obviously have no knowledge of how these women were and continue to be forced into prostitution.
Unlike some, I do not only thinking about these children once a year during some commercial holiday. Some of us are concerned all year round (24/7/365, not 1/1/1).
What is really sad is your attitude that the victimization of women is acceptable, since it has been going on since the 10th century. Your claims are frightening and alarming. These practices should disturb people, rather than make them simply shrug their shoulders and donate ten bucks!
Nut
Last edited by pecan on Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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casey's moon
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Pecan, I'm sure a lot of what you're saying is true and have heard some of this before. I don't think it's appropriate to get into it on this particular thread and I find it laughable that you're criticizing Canuckistan for her act of charity. You're raising some interesting points, but I don't understand why you're trying to sour such an obviously positive thread.
BTW, the orphanage where I used to volunteer is also near a US military base (Gunsan air base), and also receives a lot of aid from the US military in Korea. However, none of the children I have seen there are half American. The orphanage was first started by the Salvation Army less than 20 years ago. Some of the first infants to stay there are now in university, or have recently joined the workforce. They were my students for several years and I am still in contact with several of them, and my husband and I even help them financially when we can. How they became orphans is entirely beside the point for me -- they are children/young adults who need to feel that someone loves and cares about them -- which is what this thread is about. |
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pecan
Joined: 01 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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Casey's Moon,
Please do not misunderstand, I am not criticizig the charity effort.
I was merely addressing the distorted portrayal of the U.S. military as some wonderful sponsor of charity by funding many of the orphanages that they themselves created through their discriminatory policies and practices.
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| What a lot of people don't know, Koreans included, is that so many orphanages here were started by the US military and are still supported by them. Every Christmas soldiers donate a *huge* amount of toys and gifts to Korean orphans. |
The above statement struck a nerve, as it implied that they were doing the above out of kindness, when they were forced into the position from civic groups in Korea.
Sorry, but I disagree with your statement, "how they become orphans is irrelevant." You will never solve the problem without addressing the real issue.
Take a look at Thailand, Vietnam, The Philippines, Japan, etc. for all the proof you need of what the U.S. military has done their as well. Sadly, Korea is no exception.
If the U.S. government would only amend the SOFA agreement and allow Korean women to enter DNA proof that some enlisted soldier was the father of their child, maybe things would change for the better.
As it stands, the rights of Korean women are not recognized by the U.S. military. If that same soldier got a women pregnant stateside, they would have to pay child support. In Korea, they are not required to pay a dime! Instead of changing the SOFA, the top brass fund a few orphanages to tame the outrage by civic groups in Korea.
That sounds reasonable? Please.
Nut |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 8:19 pm Post subject: Re: Unfortunate... |
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| pecan wrote: |
Are you denying what I referenced in my post? Do you know how and why those orphanages came to be funded?
It is unfortunate that you think that it is just a conspiracy, when in fact it is a reality. I do not deny that men from other countries participate in prostitution, but that is a completely different issue. The majority of the orphans in these orphanages next to military bases in Korea are Amerasian children fathered by U.S. soldiers, like the one in Dongducheon.
An unlike some, I do not only thinking about these children once a year during some commercial holiday. Some of us are concerned all year round (24/7/365, not 1/1/1).
What is really sad is your attitude that the victimization of women is acceptable, since it has been going on since the 10th century. Your claims are frightening and alarming. These practices should disturb people, rather than make them simply shrug their shoulders and donate ten bucks!
Nut |
I'm not denying what you referenced in your post, it's just useless to complain about it after the fact.
Prostitution is not going to stop. How govt's/society deals with it and all the related issues for women is really the key. And unfortuantely any Amerasian or mixed blood children are not accepted in Korean society or actively adopted by Koreans. Neither are Korean kids. That's not only prostitution problem, but also a poverty and divorce problem that generates children in Korea that Koreans don't want or can't support.
The US facilitates adoptions of Amerasian kids having recognized their challenges to living in their home countries. At least there are people taking responsibility for these kids, Amerasian AND Korean. No discrimination there.
Your time would be better spent yanging at the Korean gov't about gender inequality in Korea and all its spin-offs than on this thread.
My attitude is most definetly NOT that victimization of females is acceptable, what disturbs me is the armchair political types who spend their time in an uproar about social problems yet do little in the way of actual sweaty elbow grease to help out with more immediate basic problems like ie: how am I going to get food today. 
I expend time and money on charitable stuff for kids. I don't give a rats arse who their moms or dads are, or how they came to be in an orphanage or in a soup kitchen. I leave that to be debated in the high towers of academia.
So what are you going to donate?!!! 10 bucks is a winter coat which feels a hell of a lot warmer to a kid than a gender discrimination discussion!!
ps: Happy Thanksgiving everyone!!! |
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casey's moon
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| pecan wrote: |
Sorry, but I disagree with your statement, "how they become orphans is irrelevant." You will never solve the problem without addressing the real issue. |
True enough, but what I said was:
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| How they became orphans is entirely beside the point for me ... |
For me as someone who now loves the children as people, not as a problem to solve -- why they are orphans is something I no longer think about.
What you're saying is all true, and this could be an extremely important discussion -- I just don't think it's appropriate in this thread. That's just my opinion.
Hope we haven't turned anyone off of donating |
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turtlepi1
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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[deleted]
Changed my mind...I don't want to hijack the thread anymore than it already has been....
Last edited by turtlepi1 on Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:45 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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dnamkung
Joined: 09 Apr 2004
Location: Victoria British Columbia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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hey, how big are these kids exactly? does it matter? because i have a couple jackets and sweaters that i never wear.. they are pretty big though! I live in suwon, where is the nearest drop off point?
let me know!
great stuff u guys are doing!
-dave |
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kimchikowboy
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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For those of you in Daegu, there will be a special talent/art show put on by residents of some of the local orphanages across from Kyungbuk Hospital (near the park with the big bell) in the downtown on Saturday (Nov. 27). The name of the place is (I think) Concord. The program begins at 3 p.m. If you are interested in volunteering here, there will be a guy there named Mariano Zuk who you can talk to. He has been doing some wonderful things in bringing more volunteers into the orphanage system here.
I've signed on to donate some gift bags to participants (12 elementary age, 8 middle school). Things like schools supplies, etc. Last year I also bought stuff for all the kids at the orphanage at which I was volunteering, If anyone would also like to kick in some things for the bags it would be appreciated (by me and I know by the kids). 
There's a bit more info here:
http://projects.takingitglobal.org/bringhappiness
Last edited by kimchikowboy on Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 2:53 am Post subject: |
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I hate to flog a boring, dead horse, but too many of Pecan's statements are simply too outrageously slanted not to answer.
Casey's Moon wrote:
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| BTW, the orphanage where I used to volunteer is also near a US military base (Gunsan air base), and also receives a lot of aid from the US military in Korea. However, none of the children I have seen there are half American. |
Funny, but I've noticed the same thing about the one in Tongducheon. Hardly the organized female victimization perpetrated by the American military Pecan would like us to believe.
Pecan wrote:
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Sorry, but I disagree with your statement, "how they become orphans is irrelevant." You will never solve the problem without addressing the real issue.
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I guess it's easier to single out a particular group of men than address the real issue of why unwanted children arrive at orphanages in the first place: How about the lack of comprehensive sex education and birth control for both women and men? That's not even getting into the socio-economic, or even accidental or unfortunate reasons kids end up in orphanages. But I realize it's easier for you to overlook the failures of gov't/parents in educating Korean (and other) women about their bodies and blame the US military instead.
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Take a look at Thailand, Vietnam, The Philippines, Japan, etc. for all the proof you need of what the U.S. military has done their as well. Sadly, Korea is no exception.
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Why not cast your net a little wider to include "men" in general all over the world? In fact, why not replace all the "US military" labels in your statements with just "men"? Again, easier for you to single out a particular group of them, probably because their efforts to ameliorate the situation for orphans of all kinds are so much more visible to you than the more hidden cases of child abandonment by men other than US military personnel. Harder for you to point the finger at those. I wonder how many foreign teachers have children left behind here? Or DDD workers, or the Nigerian guys in Itaewon. The list could go on and on and that's just in Korea.
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If the U.S. government would only amend the SOFA agreement and allow Korean women to enter DNA proof that some enlisted soldier was the father of their child, maybe things would change for the better.
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How does this sound:
"If the Korean gov't would only allow Korean women to enter DNA proof that some Korean man was the father of their child, maybe things would change for the better"
Given how coveted American citizenship is by many Koreans, I could see this being abused and I point to the mini-industry of Korean women traveling to the US to give birth to gain citizenship for their babies as evidence of that.
How about better sex education and birth control hey? Not that educating women on how to control their fertility has been recognized by the UN as THE key objective to help women on this planet.... 
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As it stands, the rights of Korean women are not recognized by the U.S. military. If that same soldier got a women pregnant stateside, they would have to pay child support. In Korea, they are not required to pay a dime!
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Being ordered to pay child support and actually being able to collect it back home--well you can ask even previously-married NA moms how hard that can be! Still easier to single out a particular group of men though hey?
In Korea, a woman is lucky to even get custody of her kids let alone child support. Where is your moral outrage at this gross injustice perpetrated on our Korean sisters?
Maybe you'll find a way to blame enlisted soldiers for that too.
| Quote: |
| Instead of changing the SOFA, the top brass fund a few orphanages to tame the outrage by civic groups in Korea. |
The military and Christian groups started the majority of their orphanages after the war. Maybe a little a course on the socio-economic impact of the chaos following wars would broaden your narrow, wretched view of peoples' motivations....or even the presence throughout history of prostitutes anywhere you find armies?
Furthermore, all the soldiers who build playgrounds, give toys, gifts, clothes and their time to the kids and haven't even knocked anyone up here, do it out of kindness and a fondness for children (if such male emotions are even concievable for you), many of whom have their own children back home and who miss being around kids while on their tours in Korea.
If you're not going to donate anything material, how about you help me drag all those bags of stuff to the bus station? I'm doing it on foot as I don't have a car, and I figure that while we're heaving all these bags around breaking a sweat, you can regale me with complaints of what a pile of *beep* life is for women on this planet, ok?
Last edited by canuckistan on Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:08 am; edited 2 times in total |
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trevorcollins
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| casey's moon wrote: |
| Canuckistan, I admire your work here for these kids! I'm still helping my old students from Gunsan. But I actually have some books I was going to bring to Chiaa anyway -- instead of receiving money for them, I wonder if I could have that money go for the Christmas drive? (This is a question for Chiaa) One of them is a hardcover Harry Potter -- must be worth something, right? |
I'm curious about this one also. |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:52 am Post subject: |
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| trevorcollins wrote: |
| casey's moon wrote: |
| Canuckistan, I admire your work here for these kids! I'm still helping my old students from Gunsan. But I actually have some books I was going to bring to Chiaa anyway -- instead of receiving money for them, I wonder if I could have that money go for the Christmas drive? (This is a question for Chiaa) One of them is a hardcover Harry Potter -- must be worth something, right? |
I'm curious about this one also. |
I don't know if you're talking about the Harry Potter or book or making cash donations, but I'd like to stress that we're NOT looking for cash donations, just kids stuff--new, used, whatever! You do the shopping or digging around your apt 
Also, whatever people drop off at Chiaa's, please include your username on a piece of paper with your donation. You'll all get a free pass next time you dodge the swear filter Ok, joking!!!!... but please do include your username so we can write a big thank you note to you all afterwards |
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Dawn
Joined: 06 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| Any possibility of doing stuff off at the orphanage or meeting someone around Dongducheon to pass things along? I don't mind trying to get into Seoul next weekend (I'm always glad for an excuse to visit bookstores), but I live between Uijongbu and Dongducheon, and it doesn't make a lot of sense to drag stuff into Seoul that someone else will then have to turn around and drag back up here. |
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kimchikowboy
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| BUMP-- Daegu folks, come on out on Saturday! Volunteers are needed to help out, beginning around 1. (see previous post) |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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*bump*
This weekend I found out the Xmas gift drive will be ending on the 15th of December and not the 10th, so to all of you who are making the effort, and for those who are thinking about it, there's a bit more time
For people far away from Seoul I can provide an address for you to mail your donations to, just pm me.
We are not soliciting cash donations, just material things.
Thanks to all so far who have pledged their support! |
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deeluvskitties
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Location: songpa-gu
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 4:27 am Post subject: |
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i'll be dropping some stuff at what the book this weekend, if someone can please tell me how to find it. i've been meaning to check it out. also, to ask again: someone wanted to know the age of these kids. any idea? i have some games that might be better for 12 year olds or so. are they very young?
thanks dee |
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