Korean Job Discussion Forums

[rapier]

The most dissapointing thing for me about korea is the gradual realisation that money and the lust for short-term gain seems to be the cornerstone of society here. But is this vast sacrifice of life worth it for the goal of being No.1 world economy? Can we justly condemn people's "shallow" materialistic motives?
People are judged to be more intelligent, able, worthy, and honest, the more money they have (often quite the opposite is true).
Korea is in the grip of an acute, rash materialism that I believe the west has moved on from, or balanced out to some degree.
It warps every factor of society here, every social exchange, every attitude. A person without money or having less money is deemed worthless.
These are the sort of attitudes I'm thinking of:

*Who cares if the hagwon kids run riot and learn zero? Their parents pay money for them to be here, so lets keep up the illusion.
*Who cares if we exploit 3rd world immigrant workers to the max? They are from poorer countries, so not worthy of credibility.
*Who cares if my daughter is in love with her boyfriend? She must drop him and marry the virtual stranger we've handpicked, because he has lots of money.
*Who cares if we build over every last environmentally sensitive area to make more office space and roads? Wildlife has no monetary value.
*Who cares if we live miserable stressed out overworked lives in a sea of pollution? we are making more money.

So where does the average westerner with such priorities as: having fun, enjoying liesure time, having hobbies, treating others with respect, protecting the environment, having good relationships based on "love" and respect, etc fit into this jungle of madness?What hope for someone with less than 100million in the bank?
Feeling a bit down today . Know what I mean?

[tommynomad]

Rapier,

I think you hit it right on the head when you said that this is something the west has moved on from. Others have pointed out that Korea today is a lot like Can/US culture circa 1958.

Whenever I get down about the lifestyles I see around me here, I remember that this is a nation of kids in a candystore: it's all so new to them, this post-industrial prosperity. It's gonna take them a while to come down off the sugar high.

One of my favourite korean proverbs is:
���� �� �Ҿ� �� ��
lit: "all I have are my 2 balls"
fig: "i may not be rich, but I've got pluck"
If the previous generation had this much sense, there's no reason the current (or next) one will figure things out.

For my part, I try to model all those things you pointed out:
-I make it clear to my employer that no amount of cash will lure me away from my leisure time.
-I tell people I meet on the train (oh, yeah: i use public transit rather than drive) that I'd rather be happy than rich (I believe there is enough evidence to suggest the two are mutually exclusive).
-When i find 1000 won on the floor in class, I hold it up and ask whose it is.
-I insist that my students refrain from using "-imnida" and "-imnikka", just as I jokingly admonish my gf when she lets a "-yo" ending slip out.
-I hold doors for her and everyone else.
-Rather than join the other profs at the front of the bus line, I queue behind those who came before. When latecomers use friends in line to try and cut, I tell them to get behind the rest of us.
-I tell all the (amazed) people I meet that I chose Asan over Seoul because breathing clean air and having forests 'round me is more important that being a block from a "nai-tuh" or multiplex.

L-I-V-I-N'

[casey's moon]

I operate much in the same way as you do Tommynomad. I've adjusted to Korean life, but there are some adjustments I don't want to make and hope I never do.

One thing that really bothers me is reading about the flailing domestic market in the Korea Herald day after day. If the domestic market doesn't pick up, apparently the Korean economy will suffer that much more, etc., etc. which makes sense in a way (I'm NOT an expert on economy). BUT, we're talking about a country where you can't see a single lemon on the road, where my 6 month old cell phone is bordering on ancient, and where used stores (except books) are virtually non-existent. So how on earth can the domestic market be in trouble???? Usually Koreans consume more than now???????? I thought people were supposed to be working at simplifying their lives, and reducing waste in the world. Am I misunderstanding something here?

[Homer]

I agree it is a sad trend here Rapier. This race to the money bag has sad side effects, but sadly that is one of the chief traits of many societies today.

However, the West has not moved past this at all. In fact, it has perfected this to an artform. Must have the big house, the SUV, the big everything.
Status based on money is alive and well in the West my friend. The fulfillement of individual needs, at whatever the cost to others, is prevalent in the West. This stems from the you can do whatever you want or be whatever you want no matter what philosophy. This of course has positive effects but it also has some very negative ones.
Much like the materialism that you speak of in Korea, it leads people to do whatever they feel is necessary to accumulate wealth so as to rise in status.
In the West (Canada in my experience for example) this is coupled with a philosophy of it is never my fault or my responsability.

Materialism is alive and well my friend. So I agree it is a sad trend in Korea but disagree that the West has moved on from this.

[rapier]

Useful comments both-

Yeah, i've been plunged into deep thought today over the whole thing. I'm living in a country that is the antithesis of all my motivations in life..and feel myself being judged day in day out for not having the same priorities:)
Not that I want to be a penniless hippy. I want to be a success. But I can't get my head around stressing about the way they all think...money, money, good career..big appartment..etc etc. They are so single-minded and mercenary it seems. I'm just not used to their societal values. I suppose I'm sort of facing a choice now about my own life priorities. Rather unsettling.
It just seems like you can be an ("ahem" )outgoing, funny, witty, person of broad worldwide experience and good motivation in life, but unless you have that 32pyung appartment or whatever and a solid career at a multinational company, you are nothing in their eyes. Just another loser teacher... Usually I pay no heed to other peoples criteria for existence, but it can get to you when you're surrounded by it every day..

[kiwiboy_nz_99]

It's definitely worse here than in New Zealand, and, as you say, permeates almost every interpersonal exchange between adults. The quest for status is, to me, one of the most repulsive of all human traits. Unfortunately it is so prevalent, that, on this issue at least, I'm a total outsider. So be it ...

[phaedrus]

[animalbirdfish]

I find the mentality especially galling in females. It seems that so many women (not just Korean, as Homer pointed out) are willing to trade their dignity and value as a human for a BMW and an apartment in Gangnam. Borders on prostitution, in my opinion. It's depressing because, I guess, I'd like think that humans have some value beyond their bank balance.

I have to agree, though, that this phenomenon is by no means extinct in the West, but rather mutated. I think that people in the West - when looking for a spouse, say - do look for more than just money. Of course, no one wants to marry someone who's going to fritter away the dinner money on worthless stuff, but beyond that, I think most Westerners expect more of a relationship/friendship with their mate than Koreans do. Korean women expect men to lie and cheat, so why not find one who has money so they can at least wait in comfort for him to come home?

[noelinkorea]

Taking the bus through Seoul the other day, and it hit me that Korea seems to be the most hellish place for pure capitalism and nothing more. I'm not some communist or anything, but this place is dead, raw capitalistic! Eye-polluting advertising everywhere, blatant consumerism (catching up with the Joneses style), poorly-maintained regulations on pretty much anything, overt worker exploitation (long hours/tiny pay, time with the boss and not the family, made-to-retire-at-38-syndrome, etc), police-state like authority (albeit run by boys anywhere from their teens to 25 or so...), severe environmental pollution, huge companies controlling everything and anyone...the list does go on, we all know it too...that's the scariest thing...

[casey's moon]

[rapier]

I was talking to a woman casually about it a month or so back. Her exact words were "Yes, I want to marry a rich man. Because money can do anything".
She said it in such a matter of fact,innocent, normal way..like it was totally obvious to everyone on earth. A sort of "of course it makes sense..why would anything else matter?"
Its just kinda depressing. 10 years ago I set out to travel the world and have adventures, stories, experience, fun. Its been great. But I've obviously slipped up by not working and establishing myself in the same big company in a high earning managerial position.
I now find the majority of Koreans actually think I'm making it up when I tell them I was once a game warden in Africa..or yes, I've actually seen wild leopards, sailed on the Mekong, or whatever it is. You may as well say you've set foot on mars: its all equally meaningless.
What they want to know is" Do you work for LG, or Samsung? What car do you drive? How big is your appartment? Do you have American citizenship?
Someone please give me a semi-automatic, so I can mow down all these clones in a mass hail of bullets.

[d503]

I used to make the claim that I would only marry for money.

But that was generally followed by a "so long as he just gives it to me and doesn't expect me to hang around."

Now I just tell people, no I am not rich, nor will I ever be. I don't have a car, large appartment, or a cellphone.

To quote one of my favorite books Babylon (or Homo Zapiens, or Generation P)

[the_beaver]

Nothing wrong with money and materialism.

[I_Am_Wrong]

uh oh...

We are the last people who deserve to judge the Korean goal of economic prosperity and material well being. We come from societies of privelage, we belong to richest 5% in the world, and we have always had (most of us) what the average Korean is striving for. Our societies are the worst for the exploitation of cheap Immigirant labour and the worst for the exploitation of the majority of the world that helps to keep the third world poor. We have no right to judge. Do we really have the right to complain when our societies are the worst offenders? A little hypocritical don't you think?

Most people not living in the West have dreams and aspirations of a life similar to what we have and most will never live that dream. It is an impossibilty for the entire world to live a life comparable to that of the West because the the Earth cannot simply sustain such mass consumption. Our societies are already sucking the world dry and the Earth will not be able to sustain our levels of consumption much longer. Yes, Korea is destroying the environment for economic progress, but so is China, Japan, Indonesia, India, Thailand etc. etc. etc. The materialism in Korea is by no means a positive thing, however, neither is the materialism of Japan, Western Europe, and North America. Before we point our fingers at others we should point our fingers at ourselves. To the OP: may I ask you what you did to help the situation in your home country and what you do to help the situation in Korea? Do you really think bitiching on a message board is proactive?

Western Europe has destroyed the majority of it's forests in the name of Economic progress and the United States has completely wiped out it's main source of underground fresh water in order to support it's way of life.
That being said, there is a Environmental movement in Korea that is steadily growing. Germany and the Scandinavian countries are leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of the West in terms of it's sustainability movement. In Canada, the Green Party has steadily been gaining more ground and David Suzuki has made sustainability a very approchable subject for the average person. The United States is in the Stone Age when it comes to Environmental Sustainability and it's lack of support for Kyoto (a very minor protocal that could easily be obtained) is something that the average person should find very scary.

[dnamkung]

i am wrong, you might be right on this account..


I admit korea is damn materialistic, but so is everywhere else in the world. Have you been to Los Angeles?

But to the guy that said money and happiness are mutually exclusive, i disagree. The only people I ever heard say this are people that have never been really poor, living in the western world. OK, if you are poor in parts africa, you can still be happy because everyone else is poor and you learn to deal with it. But living in the western world, unless you're a total hippy, people have certain needs (maslows laws), such as self fulillment,shelter, which most people cannot attain without the "almighty" dollar. If a raise on your paycheck doesn't make you the slightest bit happy, then you cannot say that money is mutually exclusive to happiness. Money doesn't BUY happiness, but a lack of money does cause unhappiness.

"Cash Rules Everything Around Me, C.R.E.A.M, Get the MONEY! DOLLA DOLLA BILL YALL!"- wutang