Korean Job Discussion Forums

[ptewkesb]

I��ve looked over the previous posts in the various Korea forums, but still have a few questions for all you seasoned English teachers about the best course of action for someone in my position. Although I do not have any formal sort of TESL certification, I do have a Ph.D. in English and almost 14 years of teaching experience in American universities, where I��ve often worked with students whose first language is not English. I also have ��real world�� experience in business and technical communication, as well as experience teaching classes in business and technical communication. I��m 36 years old and really want to begin teaching English overseas. To be completely honest, I��m considering Korea over other places because I have more student loans to pay off than I care to think about. That said, here are my questions:

1. Will a Ph.D. and college-level teaching experience increase my chances of finding a decent, well-paying job in Korea? Or will they make me appear overqualified? Or will they not affect my chances one way or the other, or even distinguish me from other jobseekers?

2. When someone with a background like mine is looking for a decent teaching position in Korea, well, what would that position be, do you suppose? Teaching adults? Children? Does it even matter? And would the most appropriate place of employment be a language school, a university, a corporation, or some other type of employer? I honestly have no idea how to focus my job search.

3. What is the best way for someone with a background like mine to find the best position? Through a recruiter? Posting a resume online? Responding to online job notices? The idea of having a recruiter to make arrangements is awfully appealing, but many of the posts here suggest that there are a lot of disreputable ones. Moreover, many of the previous posts suggest that coming to Korea first and then looking for work is the best strategy, and even though I do love the rush of cultural dislocation, I��m not quite sure that I have the stomach for such a leap of faith. Any comments?

4. Is Korea even the best option for someone with my background? Would I be better served by looking in Japan or Taiwan, or even outside Asia?

Thank you for wading through all this information. Any advice whatsoever would be greatly appreciated; any comment is bound to be more information than I have right now.

[Derrek]

Just curious....

WHY DID YOU COME HERE???

[hellofaniceguy]

[Derrek]

Please allow lowly BA earners such as myself to school you on one of the finer aspects of Korea:

1. Many foreigners here "buy" illegal credentials. Cheating is fine with many in this country, as long as you get away with it. This goes for Koreans, but sadly, many foreigners feel it's OK too.

when in Rome........

2. Many Koreans with Ph.Ds are listed as writing things that they never wrote, etc., all for higher salary.

3. They don't want a foreigner to get tenure at Universities here, so they fire the foreigner after 3 or 4 years (I hear). Ask a guy named "Real Reality" about this one.

Someone who has EARNED "real" credentials would be better off in another country, unless you are only here to enjoy life and have fun.

Just some notes on an angry morning.

[Derrek]

But to add some constructive comments:

Look for corporate jobs with companies like Samsung, etc. -- one of the Chaebols.

You might also take to writing materials on the side if you like that.

[Ryst Helmut]

My two cents:

You are over qualified for the private language institute route (hakwon), but hey think of the stories you'll get to tell your grand-kids!

My suggestion is that you find a university position (yes, raking in but $2,200 US and change....a month) by which ever means you feel comfortable with. There really is no right answer, but I'd always side with being IN Korea for such searches.

Once hired as a 'full-time lecturer' (I don't see that as a problem finding a place....a good place, wellllllllll) learn the ropes and start your serious search for universities that would hire you on in the English Lang. and Lit. Dept. as a first-tier professor (doubt you'd get that kind of status...but I'm hoping...as I'll be earning my Ph.D soon, but in Applied Linguistics). More than one Korean professor in English studies told me to get my doctorate and they'd gladly get me a position as a 'real professor' (but all that matters is that I get paid like a 'real professor'). I would wager you'd be in the same boat, the only difference (though, could be large) is that my degrees are in TESOL and I've the better half of a decade of experience in the Korean university system.

Really though, you should be able to find a university gig with no problem, just don't expect to get paid much more than a 'typical teacher.' I remember that I was paid $20 less a month (with only a BA in English Lit., and a couple years of seniority on him) than my coworker who had earned a J.D....and several years teaching experience in the US tertiary ed. system.

Go figure.

!Bienvenido a Corea!

!Shoosh

Ryst

[Real Reality]

Foreign scholars merit equal status: The foreign professor -- colleague or hired hand?
Foreign professors number only a handful compared to the legions of Korean professors at foreign universities, but they do most of the heavy lifting in terms of course loads, devoting themselves almost exclusively to teaching. Nevertheless, they tend to be treated as hired hands, without academic standing, and lacking the possibility of career advancement or tenure. They must submit to yearly contracts (compensated at a rate only 60 percent of their Korean peers) while walled off from the permanent Korean faculty who benefit from travel, research funding, sabbaticals, etc. Moreover, when hundreds of Korean scholars enjoy such perks at American and other foreign universities, something is obviously amiss.
by John B. Kotch, JoongAng Ilbo (June 14, 2002)
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200206/14/200206142349223599900090109011.html

Disturbing Trend Appearing?, Long termers Not being re-hired.
Recently we have become aware of 5 cases of employees (teachers) who have worked for 4 or more years, with the same employer, NOT being renewed. (4 years, 2 x 7 years, 8 years, 13 years,)

It has also become known the Ministry has sent a directive to schools, universities, etc, that teachers with long service should not be re-employed. Those who have been told to date include university teachers, college teachers and some EPIK teachers. It is a cynical attempt to prevent foreigners from getting tenure should some enterprising teacher take the matter to court.
EFL-Law-Guy
http://www.koreabridge.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3343

E-1 (Professors) VISA
In the case of a national or a public University, a foreigner is not permitted to be a full-time professor.
http://www.moj.go.kr/immi/08_english/02_business/e_1.html
Source site:
http://www.moj.go.kr/immi/08_english/02_business/service_01.html

Foreigners Experience Difficulties in Living in Korea
by Jae-Dong Yu and Soo-Jung Shin
http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2004070522448

[LETTERS TO THE EDITOR] Giving foreigners here a hard time
While I have learned to read hangeul and enjoy practising it every time I take the bus, it is the feelings of anti-Americanism that impede my average workday. For instance, I have been turned away by galbi restaurant owners at the door. "No miguk (America)!" they say. Another time, at one of Korea's bigger department store chains, I was refused the right to purchase an electronics item. Again, "No miguk!" was the reason.

Aside from these issues, there's the one prevailing issue that no foreigner in Korea enjoys. Being gawked at. Everywhere I go I am stared at in shock as if I have green horns growing out of my head. This was curious enough when I first arrived here a year ago to start work for a Korean company, but after a short while it started to become very annoying.
by Nathan Drescher, Korea Herald (October 13, 2004)
http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2004/10/13/200410130012.asp

[Canucksaram]

A Ph.D. with 14 years of teaching experience and you don't know when to use a possessive "s" vs. when to use a plural "s"?

[Ryst Helmut]

[Harpeau]

I agree wholeheartedly with Ryst. He hit the nail right on. Come ove here and try your hand. An alternative might be Taiwan.

The thing that I'm currious about is you have a Ph.D. with 14 years of various types of teaching experience, have you managed to published much? How has that been? Are you in the race back in NA? If not, why? Just wondering. No offense intended.

What you need to keep in mind is that if you come over and start working here, the money is OK, but you basically cut off most of your future career ties with going back in the future, IMHO. The reason is, most Korean unis are moneyversities and are not primarily thinking about the welfare and education of their students. It's sad, but honestly it's true.

Note that many universities are hiring around now for March 2005. It's a big step to cross the puddle. I wish you all the best of luck as you make important decisions.

[Real Reality]

Will you be happy and satisfied in Korea?

The latest World Values Survey asked people in 82 countries questions related to happiness or satisfaction in life. Singapore was the only Asian country to crack the top 25, which was mainly dominated by nations from Western Europe, South America and North America. Japan, the world's second-largest economy, came in 42nd; China and South Korea took 48th and 49th places, respectively, according to the Wall Street Journal.

Surprisingly, Puerto Rico topped the list followed by Mexico and Denmark. Indonesia came last right behind Russia. The survey was mainly based on the level of satisfaction in life. The United States was the 15th happiest country.

"Research around the world shows that married people or [cohabitating] people are much happier. Yet there's hardly any relationship between income and happiness," Veenhoven said. "So, rather than worry so much about your work, worry more about your wife."
by Choi Kyong-ae, Korea Times (December 10, 2004)
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/biz/200412/kt2004121015562011860.htm

[J.B. Clamence]

Most university jobs you see advertised are for somneone with preferrably an M.A., and the salary is usually on par with hakwon jobs. However, once in while I see an ad for a university job for a Ph.D. holder, and the salary and conditions are much better than your average university job. I think you have a good shot at one of those jobs, but they don't seem to be very common.

[ptewkesb]

Thank you all very much for your comments. They really have been helpful.

Why I want to teach English abroad: well, I am sorry to report that my predicament, and that of many other English teachers in U.S. universities, is similar to that described in Real Reality��s post referring to foreign instructors in Korean universities. Full-time English instructors like me (as opposed to tenured or tenure-track faculty members, who teach fewer courses and make more money) ��do most of the heavy lifting in terms of course loads, devoting themselves almost exclusively to teaching. Nevertheless, they tend to be treated as hired hands, without academic standing, and lacking the possibility of career advancement or tenure. They must submit to yearly contracts . . . while walled off from the permanent . . . faculty who benefit from travel, research funding, sabbaticals, etc.��

Finding a tenure-track position (especially one that��s not at a school located in the middle of nowhere or one that has open admissions) in the U. S. is difficult because of the sheer glut of MAs and PhDs in English. We are a dime a dozen, so we end up competing for a limited number of decent tenure-track jobs. Among those of us who can��t land a tenure-track job, many are lucky enough to find full-time instructorships resembling those described in Real Reality��s post, whereas plenty of other MAs and PhDs have to piece together adjunct positions to make ends meet. And we��re not talking about a ton of money here either. My annual salary for a 4/4 teaching load that consists primarily of freshman composition (a grueling course that most professors disdain teaching) is $30,000. Yes, I could pick up extra classes for a 5/5 load, plus 2 additional courses during the summer, but there would be no quality of life (such as it is). I am not about to kill myself trying to claw my way up the ivory tower.

Compounding my displeasure with this situation is the same ��disturbing trend�� in U. S. universities that Real Reality��s post identifies in Korean universities: the termination of teachers after a number of years of service to a university. From what I can gather, the American Association of University Professors�� guidelines require that any university employing a faculty member full-time for more than seven years (or is it six? I can��t remember) must automatically grant that person tenure or its equivalent. The guideline is supposed to prevent exploitation, but frankly, all it really seems to do exacerbate it. The ��moneyversities�� here, not unlike their Korean counterparts, can employ cheap labor for several years and then turn it loose, replacing it with other academics who are desperate for any full-time position. It��s a very ��cost effective�� strategy for humanities departments that constantly have to deal with slashed budgets. Yes, I could go up for ��retention�� at my university (the equivalent of ��tenure�� for instructors), but it��s an overwhelming, arbitrary process (bizarrely enough, much more rigorous than the tenure process for professors) that sucks the life out of candidates, most of whom are denied retention in the end and sent packing. The chances of my retention are low, and I do not particularly want to keep a dead-end job in the U. S. if it��s likely that I will have to start looking for another new job when I��m 40. And I won��t even get into how pathological the culture of my department is.

For all these reasons, I��ve decided that if I��m going to be holding a dead-end, low-paying job in a hostile environment, I might as well see the world while holding it! As for why I��m considering starting in Korea: well, there��s the whole student loan thing. I really need to pay them off. Trying to do so on an annual salary $30,000 in the U. S. is not working out all that well. But my motives aren��t completely mercenary. I really do enjoy teaching and have found that I am most effective when working with 1) students whose first language is not English, and 2) adult learners. And, to quote Derrek, I would love just to show up, ��enjoy life and have fun.�� I cannot count how many times I��ve been lying around the house, eating bonbons, and wondering what it would be like to speak Korean.

So that��s my story, minus various and sundry tedious personal and professional details with which I will not bore you. Again, thank you all for your feedback.

[J.B. Clamence]

So what you are saying is that the unequal relationship between tenured professors and non-tenured instructors is not a Korean-vs.-foreigner phenomenon here in Korea, but is the same situation back in the U.S., and probably every other country as well, and has little or nothing to do with the fact that tenured faculty here in Korea are usually Korean while most foreigners are just instructors.

You know, that's what we've been telling him all along.

[Harpeau]

I think that you're preaching to the choir here bud. I resonate with much of what you wrote. I would encourage you ro come over, but do remember~ the grass is always greener on the other side.