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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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 Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:00 am Post subject: Re: finally |
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| Gord wrote: |
| Grotto wrote: |
| Welcome to science time. I will be the debunker of all one sided information the critter known as gourd produces. |
You always promise so much.
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| Plants produce Oxygen during the day and produce CO2 at night. This is technically correct......however.....the metabolism? of the plant is functioning at a higher rate than at night, lower temperatures(however slight) slowing the metabolism of the vegetation, so it consumes less O2 than it put out during the day. |
We are in science time. You must quote science. By what percentage does the plantlife in the Amazon rain forest slow its metabolism at night? I'll give you a hint, it's pretty much wiped out in a rounding error.
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| By using the formule gored put forth that assumes that the metabolism of the vegetation is operating at the same level. However since there is no sunlight during the night the high energy task of converting sunlight to food is not in action thereby lowering its need for oxygen. |
Science time. Where is the science behind this claim? I'm especially curious how you have concluded that converting sunlight into food factors into the equation the oxygen consumed equation since oxygen is a byproduct of the sugar energy process which is reconsumed when the said sugar is then processed by the tree into energy. You have incorrectly assumed that oxygen factors into the energy equation when dealing with energy generation.
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So simple  |
Oh really?
http://www.life.uiuc.edu/govindjee/paper/gov.html#40
4. PRINCIPLES OF PHOTOSYNTHETIC ENERGY TRANSFORMATION
The energy that drives photosynthesis originates in the center of the sun, where mass is converted to heat by the fusion of hydrogen. Over time, the heat energy reaches the sun's surface, where some of it is converted to light by black body radiation that reaches the earth. A small fraction of the visible light incident on the earth is absorbed by plants. Through a series of energy transducing reactions, photosynthetic organisms are able to transform light energy into chemical free energy in a stable form that can last for hundreds of millions of years (e.g., fossil fuels). A simplified scheme describing how energy is transformed in the photosynthetic process is presented in this section. The focus is on the structural and functional features essential for the energy transforming reactions. For clarity, mechanistic and structural details are omitted. A more highly resolved description of oxygenic and anoxygenic photosynthesis is given in the remaining sections.
The photosynthetic process in plants and algae occurs in small organelles known as chloroplasts that are located inside cells. The more primitive photosynthetic organisms, for example oxygenic cyanobacteria, prochlorophytes and anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria, lack organelles. The photosynthetic reactions are traditionally divided into two stages - the "light reactions," which consist of electron and proton transfer reactions and the "dark reactions," which consist of the biosynthesis of carbohydrates from CO2. The light reactions occur in a complex membrane system (the photosynthetic membrane) that is made up of protein complexes, electron carriers, and lipid molecules. The photosynthetic membrane is surrounded by water and can be thought of as a two-dimensional surface that defines a closed space, with an inner and outer water phase. A molecule or ion must pass through the photosynthetic membrane to go from the inner space to the outer space. The protein complexes embedded in the photosynthetic membrane have a unique orientation with respect to the inner and outer phase. The asymmetrical arrangement of the protein complexes allows some of the energy released during electron transport to create an electrochemical gradient of protons across the photosynthetic membrane.
Photosynthetic electron transport consists of a series of individual electron transfer steps from one electron carrier to another. The electron carriers are metal ion complexes and aromatic groups. The metal ion complexes and most of the aromatic groups are bound within proteins. Most of the proteins involved in photosynthetic electron transport are composed of numerous polypeptide chains that lace through the membrane, providing a scaffolding for metal ions and aromatic groups. An electron enters a protein complex at a specific site, is transferred within the protein from one carrier to another, and exits the protein at a different site. The protein controls the pathway of electrons between the carriers by determining the location and environment of the metal ion complexes and aromatic groups. By setting the distance between electron carriers and controlling the electronic environment surrounding a metal ion complex or aromatic group, the protein controls pairwise electron transfer reactions. Between proteins, electron transfer is controlled by distance and free energy, as for intraprotein transfer, and by the probability that the two proteins are in close contact. Protein association is controlled by a number of factors, including the structure of the two proteins, their surface electrical and chemical properties and the probability that they collide with one another. Not all electron carriers are bound to proteins. The reduced forms of plastoquinone or ubiquinone and nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate (NADPH) or NADH act as mobile electron carriers operating between protein complexes. For electron transfer to occur, these small molecules must bind to special pockets in the proteins known as binding sites. The binding sites are highly specific and are a critical factor in controlling the rate and pathway of electron transfer.
The light reactions convert energy into several forms (Fig. 1). The first step is the conversion of a photon to an excited electronic state of an antenna pigment molecule located in the antenna system. The antenna system consists of hundreds of pigment molecules (mainly chlorophyll or bacteriochlorophyll and carotenoids) that are anchored to proteins within the photosynthetic membrane and serve a specialized protein complex known as a reaction center. The electronic excited state is transferred over the antenna molecules as an exciton. Some excitons are converted back into photons and emitted as fluorescence, some are converted to heat, and some are trapped by a reaction center protein. (For a discussion of the use of fluorescence as a probe of photosynthesis, see e.g., Govindjee et al., 1986 and Krause and Weis, 1991.) Excitons trapped by a reaction center provide the energy for the primary photochemical reaction of photosynthesis - the transfer of an electron from a donor molecule to an acceptor molecule. Both the donor and acceptor molecules are attached to the reaction center protein complex. Once primary charge separation occurs, the subsequent electron transfer reactions are energetically downhill.
In oxygenic photosynthetic organisms (see section 5), two different reaction centers, known as photosystem II and photosystem I, work concurrently but in series. In the light photosystem II feeds electrons to photosystem I. The electrons are transferred from photosystem II to the photosystem I by intermediate carriers. The net reaction is the transfer of electrons from a water molecule to NADP+, producing the reduced form, NADPH. In the photosynthetic process, much of the energy initially provided by light energy is stored as redox free energy (a form of chemical free energy) in NADPH, to be used later in the reduction of carbon. In addition, the electron transfer reactions concentrate protons inside the membrane vesicle and create an electric field across the photosynthetic membrane. In this process the electron transfer reactions convert redox free energy into an electrochemical potential of protons. The energy stored in the proton electrochemical potential is used by a membrane bound protein complex (ATP-Synthase) to covalently attach a phosphate group to adenosine diphosphate (ADP), forming adenosine triphosphate (ATP). Protons pass through the ATP-Synthase protein complex that transforms electrochemical free energy into a type of chemical free energy known as phosphate group-transfer potential (or a high-energy phosphate bond) (Klotz, 1967). The energy stored in ATP can be transferred to another molecule by transferring the phosphate group. The net effect of the light reactions is to convert radiant energy into redox free energy in the form of NADPH and phosphate group-transfer energy in the form of ATP. In the light reactions, the transfer of a single electron from water to NADP+ involves about 30 metal ions and 7 aromatic groups. The metal ions include 19 Fe, 5 Mg, 4 Mn, and 1 Cu. The aromatics include quinones, pheophytin, NADPH, tyrosine and a flavoprotein. The NADPH and ATP formed by the light reactions provide the energy for the dark reactions of photosynthesis, known as the Calvin cycle or the photosynthetic carbon reduction cycle. The reduction of atmospheric CO2 to carbohydrate occurs in the aqueous phase of the chloroplast and involves a series of enzymatic reactions. The first step is catalyzed by the protein Rubisco (D-ribulose 1,5-bisphosphate carboxylase/oxygenase), which attaches CO2 to a five-carbon compound. The reaction produces two molecules of a three-carbon compound. Subsequent biochemical reactions involve several enzymes that reduce carbon by hydrogen transfer and rearrange the carbon compounds to synthesize carbohydrates. The carbon reduction cycle involves the transfer and rearrangement of chemical bond energy.
In anoxygenic photosynthetic organisms (see section 6) water is not used as the electron donor. Electron flow is cyclic and is driven by a single photosystem, producing a proton electrochemical gradient that is used to provide energy for the reduction of NAD+ by an external H-atom or e-donor (e.g., H2S or an organic acid) in a process known as "reverse electron flow". Fixation of CO2 occurs via different pathways in different organisms.
That's the simple version. Could you please point out where your claims come into play as I can't seem to find it. Thanks.
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| The temperature beneath the canopy does remain pretty much the same due to the trapped heat and humidity, but above the canopy the temperature can vary by as much as 3 degrees celcius, a slight but significant difference. |
While true, you model failed to cite both the amount of the variance (which will be quite small) and failed to include non-plant life which will be consuming oxygen 24/7. You are citing an impossible model which does not exist.
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| I do also want to note the critter known as gored has not responded to the information that I posted concerning the swidden farming that has been practiced in the Amazon for centuries. |
I responded to one message as I was gone the entire day. If you wish, I will respond. But remember, this is science time! No statements or claims not supported by cold, hard science.
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Keep spouting out one sided nonsense gourd it is almost humorous, if it wasnt so sad  |
Your reply in the now-proclaimed science thread lacked any science backing, and your claims appear flawed and suspect. For this claim to be true, I ask that you support your claims with factual evidence. |
This is the last post Gord has made on Dave's.
Its been 5 days now.
Has he gone into shock? Anybody know what happened to him? I suppose its hard to be finally vanquished from your top spot on EslCafe.
Everybody please welcome, a round of applause..for the new Champion of Daves Esl cafe..announcing the new King.........
RAPIER!!!!!!!!!!
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:34 am Post subject: |
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hmmm technically it appears my post was the one that squashed the bug 
My bet is that he is holed up in a fetal position rocking back and forth mumbling....cant lie anymore...cant lie anymore....bwahahahaha Grotto was right Rapier was right Then the banging of the head on the floor starts  This followed with frenzied searches of the internet looking for more misinformation followed by more collapses into the fetal position  |
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Mankind
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:36 am Post subject: |
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The losers are not hard to spot.
28 posts in a row talking about Gord? How queer are you queens?
My guess is Gord is doing what you should be doing.
Getting a life !!!
HAND  |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:45 am Post subject: |
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I think he's gone back to law school, to repeat his first year. Go Gord!!!
(zing!!!!) |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
| Guri Guy wrote: |
Oops.  Sorry everyone. I got that error message so I assumed the post didn't go through. I hope some of the moderators can delete the extra posts. Mea culpa... |
Haha, keep them guri guy..your avatar x6 makes for pleasant visual effect. Is she Korean? |
you kidding? you dont know who that is? |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| itaewonguy wrote: |
| rapier wrote: |
| Guri Guy wrote: |
| Oops. Sorry everyone. I got that error message so I assumed the post didn't go through. I hope some of the moderators can delete the extra posts. Mea culpa... |
Haha, keep them guri guy..your avatar x6 makes for pleasant visual effect. Is she Korean? |
you kidding? you dont know who that is? |
No.
I suppose you've banged her at least, in your 8 years or whatever here. If only we were all as expert on all things Korean as you. |
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Guri Guy
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: Bamboo Island
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| Hee hee. I certainly know who she is. I was waiting for someone to comment. Oh and long live the King.. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:10 am Post subject: ... |
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Is it Gord?
Gord? |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:17 am Post subject: ... |
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| Gord? |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:30 am Post subject: |
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He's waiting for this thread to dissapear before he reappears.
Has he snuck back onto the Politics forum yet? How about the buy and sell maybe? |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:58 am Post subject: ... |
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| bump |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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I think its time for a quick rainforest update, just for those who think its all ok...
Amazon forests not doing well.
(The Daily Grist 12 Feb 2005) If Amazonian rainforests are, as the old saying goes, the lungs of the world, then our respiratory outlook is not good.
The forests face a trio of threats. There are fire and logging, as poor farmers, cattle ranchers, and agribusinesses clear land for crops or cattle. Then there's "dieback," whereby the forest vegetation dies from lack of water, which is driven by drought, which is driven by climate change, which is driven by excess carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, which is exacerbated by fire, logging, and dieback in the Amazonian rainforest. Ah, such tangled webs we weave....
Attempts to break the cycle have been inauspicious. Last year, Brazil's Workers' Party, led by President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, suspended logging licenses in an attempt to slow deforestation of the Amazon. In response, loggers and their allies rioted, blockaded a major highway, burned buses, threatened to seize an airport and dump poisonous chemicals in rivers, and promised that "blood will flow." The government vowed not to "cave into blackmail," and then, uh, caved into blackmail, restoring the licenses last week. And so the world's lung cancer progresses, untreated.
Nun's murder spurs Amazon protection
(Daily Grist, 23 Feb 05) Outrage over the Feb. 12 murder of nun and Amazon defender Dorothy Stang has finally catalyzed Brazil's government to protect the forest Stang worked for decades to save.
Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, in addition to once again pulling logging permits he had restored just a week before Stang's assassination due to intense pro-logging protests, announced on Thursday that nearly 20,000 square miles of Amazon forest will be federally protected. But so far, laws and reserves have made little difference in the Para region, since loggers and ranchers seize more and more land illegally using forged deeds or sheer force, something Stang died trying to stop.
Even with federal troops now in the area, business as usual hasn't halted. But at least those suspected of orchestrating her killing are being brought to justice: one surrendered to police and another was apprehended on Sunday, though the rancher believed to have ordered the hit seems to have fled the region.
Illegal logging operation in Indonesia feeds China's appetite for wood
(The Daily Grist 16 Feb 2005) A three-year investigation of some of the last remaining intact tropical forests in the Asia-Pacific region has revealed an enormous international smuggling ring, possibly the largest in the world involving a single type of wood, says a report from two enviro groups.
In a billion-dollar-a-year operation, the criminals have been logging merbau trees - used mainly for hardwood flooring - from Indonesia's Papua province at a rate of more than 10 million cubic feet per month, according to the report. Despite an Indonesian government ban on the export of logs, "[t]here's no denying that military officers are involved in illegal logging," said Muhammad Yayat Alfianto of Telapak, one the groups that worked on the report.
By paying bribes totaling some $200,000 per shipment, the loggers were able to transport the trees to a harbor in eastern China, activists say. Ever-ravenous China has become the world's largest consumer of illegal timber, according to the London-based Environmental Investigation Agency. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 5:31 am Post subject: ... |
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| Memory runs short. BUMP |
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