|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
turtlepi1
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
|
 Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:46 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Zyzyfer wrote: |
Okay, original point of post is officially shot out the window. Time to start making some points.
| turtlepi1 wrote: |
| ...you singed a contract and the school has a right to certain expectations especially when the OP implied it was a housing issue. |
For all we know, the housing issue could have been part of the contract. Assuming that the housing issue and contractual obligations are completely unrelated is still assuming.
| Quote: |
| Sure the actual situation is different but could have been presented in a better light and you may have responded a little softer. |
So it's up to everyone else to decide the manner in which I post? Whoa. That's a pretty sweet way to look at it.
| Quote: |
I think chronicpride's "scolding" of you falls into about the same level as your "flaminess" so take it for that...  |
While I generally stay out of any arguments beyond a basic, factual issue, chronicpride was very careful in choosing what he said to remain mostly inoffensive and nonassuming. While I'm no fan of the politically correct, the conclusions that people will jump to on the internet know no bounds.
-----
Still waiting patiently on that info for ����, Daechi. |
Still looking where ANY of those comments had ANTHING to do with you...so you wanna remind me HOW EXACTLY you keep your nose out of other people's arguments? (well actually I could care less...) |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
trevorcollins
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Daechidong Waygookin wrote: |
| Zyzyfer wrote: |
| Daechidong Waygookin wrote: |
| Scot-in-Ansan wrote: |
I am sorry but you do not know me, or my situation. Furthermore, I didn't ask you about whether I should actually leave my job or not.
i asked for advice about immigration and the actual procedures behind changing jobs.
Once again, I will thank Peppermint for the direct advice, with no judgements. Don't ;ecture when you don't know the full situation, which I am not about to divulge to a complete stranger. |
Well SOOOOOOOOOOOOORREEEEEEYYYY. You said you have no problems with your school. If its an apartment issue, get it resolved. If you dont like your town then suck it up. If you have other issues, you didnt say so. Do you have a stalker? is the ajumma downstairs mean to you? You never stated that there are serious issues. So many people break their contracts for the stupidest reasons. |
Where you're living is equally as important as the job. You have to spend a year of your life potentially in the same neighborhood, so it better have some sort of attraction to it, or you're simply asking to drive yourself bonkers. I think you've got the original poster confused with those other people who do midnight runs; the guy is simply trying to do some research on the best way to go about changing jobs amicably and legally.
There was another guy on here by the name of ryleeys who had this same feeling of contractual obligation as you mentioned. In his case, however, he was placed in a ridiculous situation and everyone told him that he should leave. He passed up better job offers as well due to this contractual obligation. Considering how important the contract can potentially be to a school (re: not very), this heroic diatribe seems ill-placed. |
You sign a contract, you finish it. Unless the school is being a major craphole and screwing you over. |
Who are you? His mother....?? There's clauses in more or less every contract here for leaving early. It's not a military tour of duty or a prison sentence. Sure if the school isn't jerking him around it would be low to do a runner, but to give the required notice and lose out on airfare, that's entirely his prerogative. His right actually. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
Daechidong Waygookin wrote
| Quote: |
| You sign a contract, you finish it. Unless the school is being a major craphole and screwing you over. If its the neighborhood, cmon. We are adults. The OP should have checked the neighborhood before signing |
HahahahahahHHHAHAHAHAHA  
Oooh thats funny.
If you dont have all the information behind the scenes you dont judge. Period....end of conversation!
What if your mother dies? Sister? Father? Grandmother? Family emergency, sickness, accident?
Check out the neighborhood before coming
Man you just keep em coming. Who crapped in your cornflakes this morning?
Check out your neighborhood from overseas  you might be able to find out something about your city but as to the actual neighborhood good freaking luck! Take a little look around Seoul, it ranges from new to 50 year old slums...even take a look a block or two off of a few of the more trendy areas...dive city.
Ease up a bit there hoss Just because someone posts doesnt mean they have to tell you their life story! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| turtlepi1 wrote: |
| Still looking where ANY of those comments had ANTHING to do with you...so you wanna remind me HOW EXACTLY you keep your nose out of other people's arguments? (well actually I could care less...) |
I have to explain this? Daechidong Waegookin is criticizing my own views (as I am him). You jumped in. Your comments are in support of his view and thus contradict my own. A to C via B...? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
turtlepi1
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Zyzyfer wrote: |
| turtlepi1 wrote: |
| Still looking where ANY of those comments had ANTHING to do with you...so you wanna remind me HOW EXACTLY you keep your nose out of other people's arguments? (well actually I could care less...) |
I have to explain this? Daechidong Waegookin is criticizing my own views (as I am him). You jumped in. Your comments are in support of his view and thus contradict my own. A to C via B...? |
That would imply a transitive relationship that doesn't exist...
A --> B B <-- C A doesn't share a transitive relationship with C
nor you with me... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chronicpride
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 5:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This reminds me of a passage from Sun Tzu: "When you cannot mount a direct and effective retort on the general point(which you do know), of the post that you are debating, then use a transparent diversion tactic that attacks the post's semantics or choice of examples, plus throw in something like 'transitive relationship' to give it that extra sprinkle of the impression that one has read a book.
Either way, everyone looks at the retort (plus your one before)as being a lipstick version of flaccid comebacks like 'I know you are, but what am I'.
(Don't sell yourself short. You're smarter than that. If you really care about salvaging pride in front of a forum of anonymous people who, at the end of the day, could care less, put the extra 5 minutes of thought into it.) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
OiGirl
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: Hoke-y-gun
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 5:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The quality of life?? In your neighborhood? Come on! If you don't like the block you're on, do your grocery shopping and bar-hopping in the next dong over!
You signed a professional employment contract for a year. Why is it so hard to accept that?
I just can't think of any neighborhood in Korea that I couldn't live in for a single year. But then, again, I suspect that's NOT what this thread is truly about. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
turtlepi1
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| chronicpride wrote: |
(Don't sell yourself short. You're smarter than that. ) |
Of course I am...look your avatar isn't taking up have the friggin' screen anymore...
As for the rest...bah...
(I'm letting it drop. I'll argue it in a thread that isn't going to have me ranting about the OP's decision to leave...)
(Maybe I have her confused with someone else but even if that is the case the things I think might be the issue make me not want to hammer the point...sure people have reasons and in life we have to do what is right for us in a given circumstance...*snip*)
Almost got started 
And by the way? What is a book and why would I want to read one? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scot-in-Ansan
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Give it up will you people. It's none of your business if I want to leave my school or not. If you have any advice on the question that I asked, it has been and would be most appreciated.
I am giving my school notice, as required by the contract. As mentioned before, I am not in the military and therefore have every right to leave my job if I so desire. Once again, I did not ask for advice on whether I should leave my job or not, that decision has been made. If you think that it was an easy decision, well, who cares, you don't know me.
So just give it up will you.
For the record, Scot ie Scot in Ansan refers to my nationality, its not my name. I am a chick! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scot-in-Ansan
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Ps I didn't say anything about the quality of life in my neighbourhood. Don't just make up your own stories to fit my situation |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CanadaCommando
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Location: People's Republic of C.C.
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Give it up will you people. It's none of your business if I want to leave my school or not. If you have any advice on the question that I asked, it has been and would be most appreciated. |
Ah, Scott-girl...You have made the mistake of thinking that this was still your topic. In fact, this has nothing to do with you anymore and is now a debate between the forces of good and evil.
Why is it wrong for a person to jump a contract? Obviously if things were ideal, then they would want to stay. Severance and airfare are large motivators for that. A person who leaves is obviously distraught enough that he/she doesnt mind missing out on 2 grand + of incentives.
I have a problem with people expecting a Teacher to act like a professional in a Hogwan. A contract in Korea dictates not simply employment, but also accomodations and lifestyle. Even if your Hogwan is treating you straight up(which is rare), but you hate Korea, you should stay? Spend a year in depression to do the "honorable" things? BS to me. Here, the person is unhappy, decided to leave, and gave notice.
All the information I gathered on Korea before I came here was either cynical teachers bar spots, or tourism crap aimed to glorify Korea. When I actually got here, it was completely different. No matter how much research you do, I doubt you will KNOW if you can be happy here until you get here. One of the risks a Hogwan takes in hiring new teachers is that they could hate Korea and want to leave soon after. If they didn't want to take such a risk they could offer higher salaries for second or third contract veterans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tomwaits
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Location: PC Bong
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| While you have the right to give notice---the school have the right to say they have honored the contract and refuse to release you. As is fair I think. What others are getting at (maybe) is that we have all seen teachers cry bloody murder if everything isn't perfect and then decide one day they would be happier working for the competition. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Daechidong Waygookin
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: No Longer on Dave's. Ive quit.
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If we go into the contract with the mindset that its just a worthless piece of paper, then why do you expect the hogwon/school to abide by it? Scot, I read some of your prior posts where you say you are very happy. What changed? You are very much entitled to leave. Remember though that since you are breaking the contract, your school has no obligation to give you a release. Again, we are talking about breaking a contract for really meaningless reasons. If you didnt want to be in a small town why didnt you just go to Seoul in the first place?
To those jumping on me for saying that Scot should have dont her research, read her posts:
| Quote: |
I lived in Ansan last year and loved it. I hooked up with a really great foreigners community. So, SHE does not have a problem with living in Ansan.
My neighbourhood is really isolated and it takes me about 30-40mins to get to anywhere that I would want to live(ie Ansan) |
NOT ONLY was she already IN Korea, her new town is a mere 40 minutes away. It would have taken her one saturday to take a little road trip to her new place and to check it out. Is that too hard? Why didnt you do that Scot? You really have only yourself to blame.
This thread has taken a different direction, and isnt all about Scot's case. In general, unless the school is cheating you out of money or making your life crap, which Scot's school doesnt seem to be doing, then the contract should be something we respect and abide by.
| Quote: |
| They are very good at sticking to the contract so I'm pretty sure it'llbe fine but I didn't know the situation with immigration. |
Shouldnt you be too? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
turtlepi1
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CanadaCommando wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Give it up will you people. It's none of your business if I want to leave my school or not. If you have any advice on the question that I asked, it has been and would be most appreciated. |
Ah, Scott-girl...You have made the mistake of thinking that this was still your topic. In fact, this has nothing to do with you anymore and is now a debate between the forces of good and evil.
|
Ah 'tis true...'pecially since she said she was probably unlikely to post again...having said that...Our larger than the issue keeps slapping back at her...hard to just let it die for her I am sure...
Weird though how we feel we own a thread just because we start it...(and that isn't a crit. of the OP either...I sometimes get my back up when my thread is hijacked when I am looking for actual advice...mind you this thread wasn't hijacked per se...It actually had high octane gasoline poured on it and then was flamed by napalm) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bosintang
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Location: In the pot with the rest of the mutts
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Daechidong Waygookin wrote: |
If we go into the contract with the mindset that its just a worthless piece of paper, then why do you expect the hogwon/school to abide by it?
|
It's not a worthless piece of paper, which is why she should *ask* to break it and try to come to a compromise with him, which it looks like she has every intention of doing. If the director is reasonable, it is not in their best interest to try and force an unhappy employee to stay.
| Quote: |
Scot, I read some of your prior posts where you say you are very happy. What changed? You are very much entitled to leave. Remember though that since you are breaking the contract, your school has no obligation to give you a release.
|
They don't have an obligation to give her a release, unless it's specifically written in her contract. However, again, if the director is reasonable, they *should* give her a release, and she's doing the right thing by asking for one.
| Quote: |
Again, we are talking about breaking a contract for really meaningless reasons.
|
If she's not happy, then she's not happy. Who are you to judge what reasons are meaningless or not? That's between her and her director.
| Quote: |
If you didnt want to be in a small town why didnt you just go to Seoul in the first place?
To those jumping on me for saying that Scot should have dont her research, read her posts:
| Quote: |
I lived in Ansan last year and loved it. I hooked up with a really great foreigners community. So, SHE does not have a problem with living in Ansan.
My neighbourhood is really isolated and it takes me about 30-40mins to get to anywhere that I would want to live(ie Ansan) |
NOT ONLY was she already IN Korea, her new town is a mere 40 minutes away. It would have taken her one saturday to take a little road trip to her new place and to check it out. Is that too hard? Why didnt you do that Scot? You really have only yourself to blame.
|
How do you know she didn't check out her new town? Why is this relevant? People make mistakes. They make decisions they may think, at the time, that they can handle, but then later regret making them.
| Quote: |
This thread has taken a different direction, and isnt all about Scot's case. In general, unless the school is cheating you out of money or making your life crap, which Scot's school doesnt seem to be doing, then the contract should be something we respect and abide by.
|
There's nothing illegal, unethical, or wrong with asking to ammend or break a contract. It's not a year-long sentence, it's an agreement. If she's not happy with her situation, again, that's between her and her director. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
